ZERO's 38WC - need information

I recently had couple of inquiries regarding PTU that would be specific to loading Zero's 38WC. 

Since I do not load these bullets myself, I would appreciate dimensional information, OD and OAL.


AP

.3580-.3585" X .620"

DA/SA wrote:.3580-.3585" X .620"

Thank you! 

These dimensions put Zero HBWC right in the middle of the specs for my two WC specific PTUs.  I wonder if there is an sufficient interest in PTU specific to Zero's?  Would appreciate feedback rather sooner then later, - I plan on running other PTUs next weekend, and can run slightly changed HBWC PTU design to better accommodate Zero's.

AP

A-How much difference would it make in accuracy?
B-You ARE going to make one Hornady specific, right?

mspingeld wrote:A-How much difference would it make in accuracy?
B-You ARE going to make one Hornady specific, right?

A - I do not expect very significant difference in accuracy between current version of HBWC PTU and one in discussion, - something to be tested.  Main difference would be coming from loading experience, - smaller OD translates into less effort in extracting expander from the case because case is not expanded as much as with current PTU.  Hence easier to use brass with thicker wall than WC specific brass.  Lesser expansion of the case most likely will eliminate the need to use FCD.  And in general expanding case to dimensions matching particular profile is positive thing.

B - negative!  I'm not planning to buy LNL / AP press.  Without it designing PTU for WC bullets is like shooting with closed eyes at 50Y.  It is not the same as PTU for regular bullets or even HTC versions. 

AP

A- I'll take one.
B-Wait! You're supposed to keep your eyes open?

I'm an old man. What is Ptu. I know police training unit, but...

Engineering question: What about a tiny taper or step? Say .360 near the mouth down to .357 at the deepest point. Wouldn't that make it easier to extract the PTU from the case and still be better? The crimping, particular with an FCD, would take care of post seating uniformity, no?

@noylj, ptu is powder transfer unit, also called powder through expander. It allows expanding a case while simultaneously dropping a powder charge in the same reloading station.

noylj wrote:I'm an old man. What is Ptu. I know police training unit, but...

Powder transfer unit..

PhotoEscape wrote:

DA/SA wrote:.3580-.3585" X .620"

Thank you! 

These dimensions put Zero HBWC right in the middle of the specs for my two WC specific PTUs.  I wonder if there is an sufficient interest in PTU specific to Zero's?  Would appreciate feedback rather sooner then later, - I plan on running other PTUs next weekend, and can run slightly changed HBWC PTU design to better accommodate Zero's.

AP

I am using your PTU for HBWC in my Dillon. I have it set so that I can seat the bullet with my finger and there is slight resistance. I do not use a FCD on them.

Foundryratjim wrote:I am using your PTU for HBWC in my Dillon. I have it set so that I can seat the bullet with my finger and there is slight resistance. I do not use a FCD on them.

That is exactly the correct way!  Just need to make sure case isn't expanded longer than bullet's length minus 1/32" so there is no possibility for bullet set back.  However the reason for my inquiry is coming from stated in different thread increasing difficulties finding thin-walled cases best suitable for loading 38WC.  The most readily available cases, i.e. Starline and Starline made privately head-stamped, meet requirement for internal tapering.  However these also will aide in developing bicep in arm operating lever of the press, because of the elevated force needed for extracting expander from the case due to walls thickness.  I recently tried few old TZZ cases - these will aid in developing biceps in both arms.  Yes, it required two arms to pull HBWC expander from TZZs.

So, HBWC version is good for Zero's when thin-walled cases are used.  And it works fine if one doesn't object elevated force for extracting expander (using One Shot is helpful!).  DEWC has slightly shorter expander, that is also on lower end for OD of the bullet.  I would love to have few samples of both Zero's profiles to see if I can address both with same design.  And that raises another question, - are many folks here use double-ended version of WC bullet?

AP

I had that issue of the PTU being hard to extract. I clean my brass with water and steel pins. When I dry them from that I put them in a vibratory tumbler with walnut hills and some liquid car polish. Seem to have eliminated the issue.

I just knew if I checked here often enough, I would find the answer to my questions. I am also using Zero HBWC with assorted brass and a photo escape HBWC PTU.  I suspected that the PTU outside diameter might be slightly large for the Zero bullet, but by finger seating the bullet approximately 1/32" shorter, as photo escape mentioned, it works for me. As far as the difficulty in extracting the die, I also use a little liquid car wax in the rinse portion of my liquid tumbling which helps.  Alex, I can send you a handful of my Zero HBWC bullets if you still want them.....

COAST GUARD MIKE wrote:I just knew if I checked here often enough, I would find the answer to my questions. I am also using Zero HBWC with assorted brass and a photo escape HBWC PTU.  I suspected that the PTU outside diameter might be slightly large for the Zero bullet, but by finger seating the bullet approximately 1/32" shorter, as photo escape mentioned, it works for me. As far as the difficulty in extracting the die, I also use a little liquid car wax in the rinse portion of my liquid tumbling which helps.  Alex, I can send you a handful of my Zero HBWC bullets if you still want them.....

Thank you, Mike!  Mike S has them already enroute to me! 

I need few Zero's DEWC if anyone uses them.

AP

Make sure the inside of case is lubed if you are water washing. Dry brass sticks bad. My Star expander is .360 for older Zero hbwc, I don't want to swage them.

Bruce, How do you lube the inside of the cases?

Alex, Tapered expansion?

Mike, shake them in a box , they'll stand up.

Hit them with a shot of spray lube from 2 directions.

Let dry

I lube the inside of .32 S&W-L cases by putting some spray lube on a Q-Tip, then swiping it inside the case.  If I don't do this with new cases, the PTU expander I use will pull the case rim right through the case holder

One other thing I do every 50 rounds or so is to scrub the PTU with some scotchbrite. Seems to help.

I use to have a sticking problem till I started using a old lube pad that was used for rifle cases I just hit the end of pistol cases on the pad and it gets just enough to lube sizing die and PTU only takes a second end on pad twist put in reloader!