Two questions about the use of the S&W Model 41 in Bullseye Competition

Over the years, a lot of people have used the S&W Model 41 for bullseye competition.  If I remember correctly, that' what it was designed for.  For those of you with good memories, I have two questions.

1 - Which barrel got the most usage, the 5 inch "bull" barrel, or the 7" barrel?

2 - A friend of mine tells me he has a barrel weight for the 7" barrel, similar to the weight used on the S&W Model 52, but apparently S&W made several styles of barrel weiighs.  What was the reason for doing so?


The photo below is my gun, with Altamont Rosewood stocks - I still have the original S&W stocks, and two "ergonomic" wrap-around stocks, neither of which fits my hand.  The slot in the barrel near the end is apparently how the barrel weight is attached.  I've also got a Clark barrel with a 1" Ultradot on top, but I wanted to try out open sights.

Reason? Whatever will sell to who ever will buy.

Historically for use I can't say but I have seen both in competition for as long as I've been shooting. 

Personal preferences rule but in my opinion the shorter barrel may be slightly more forgiving to a new shooter due to higher inertia hence the option for weights on the 7 3/8 . I see High Masters competing with iron sights and the long barrel. Don't be afraid of the long one!

bruce martindale wrote:........I see High Masters competing with iron sights and the long barrel. Don't be afraid of the long one!

With such a long sight radius, and such great sights, at 50 yards I felt like I was "cheating".  I expected to go home, and put the Clark barrel back on, but as for the weights, if they were really helpful, I suspect they'd have been a lot more popular.  Yes, the gun feels very nicely "balanced" to me with the long barrel.

Curious - with all the new high-tech 22's, including the "space age looking" guns from overseas, for better shooters is the 41 still popular for competition?

The first two years the Model 41 was only sold with a 7 3/8' barrel with a muzzle brake.
So the 7 3/8" was the most popular

In 1959 they offered the first 5", it wasn't a heavy barrel so the Bullseye crowd probably still wanted the 7 3/8"

In 1965 the 5 1/2" heavy barrel was offered, with an extended front sight.

In the late 70's it seems the 5 1/2" was more sought after.

When I worked for a S&W distributor in early 80s, Model 41s were still scarce and whichever barrel length 
shipped from S&W would sell in a day or two. (I think the retail price was about $214 in 1980)

IN ABOUT 1980 they dropped the muzzle brake on the 7" barrel.

I'm not a 'better' shooter, but I've gone back to my 41 for the last couple matches. First time to see if the new extractor is working. So far...

Factory grips are kinda fat for me, and make a long reach to the trigger. Need to play with that a bit. A little roll in the trigger would be nice too.

I've been shooting an FWB for awhile. Awesome in many ways, but the raked grip frame makes for huge grips to make them more 1911-ish. I went thru a CMM set, and now a 3d printed set. Neither felt good to me, and bring back the issue of reach to the trigger.

Another hassle is cleaning it with a dot sight mounted. Its also not possible to use a rod from the breech, pull thru only. But man, what a trigger.

shanneba wrote:......IN ABOUT 1980 they dropped the muzzle brake on the 7" barrel.

Thanks for all the information - I guess I need to find a good source to read up on these things.

One quick question - was the "muzzle brake" a gimmick, or was it useful?  Is it designed to minimize the barrel lift when firing?

Hmm, thanks to your post, I did some searching, and found this:
http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-wesson-semi-auto-pistols/410830-smith-wesson-model-41-muzzle-brake-factory-aftermarket.html

Apparently as a non-collector, I don't see much purpose in getting one, let alone the huge price!

I did some more searching, and found this:
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/937630160

Gee, for only $2,400.....    ouch!

But back to my real question, what is the black cylinder thing with threads at one end, at the bottom left of the image?  

Greetings,

On the 7 3/8" barrels, there is a threaded muzzle weight that is installed at the front of the barrel below the muzzle.

They offered two weights. Aluminum and Steel.

If an old gun, the threads may be "stuck". So, apply a dose of good Penetrating fluid prior to removing the weight.

Also, use a screwdriver bit that correctly fits the machined slot to prevent burring the part.

Cheers,

Dave

WesG wrote:......Factory grips are kinda fat for me, and make a long reach to the trigger. Need to play with that a bit. A little roll in the trigger would be nice too......

.......Another hassle is cleaning it with a dot sight mounted. Its also not possible to use a rod from the breech, pull thru only. But man, what a trigger.

Two quick thoughts - I found lots of stocks/grips for the Model 41 last time I did a search.  I like the Altamont stocks; in my hands, they "feel" narrower.
https://www.altamontco.com/pistol-grips/smith-and-wesson/41/
Because of a gun broker mix-up, I ended up with three pair of them, one that I kept, and one that was for my brother, but which is now boxed up on its way to Dave Salyer to try.  If you make any reasonable offer, you can get my third set, but it's "brown", not "red", even though the box says Rosewood.  Their mistake.

Cleaning - I have the same issue with my Clark barrel - my solution was to use a longer cleaning rod.

Let me get back to the house, and off my phone on the grips.

There's no access to the bore on the FWB from the rear. Theres a hole in the frame below the rear sight that draws you in, and then disappoints ;-)

Depending on the sight, you might have to remove it to remove the slide. And if not, you most likely had to remove the rear sight to mount it.

Recent production has been poor quality lm afraid, even the so called Performance Center models that l have seen. They may think highly of them but not those of us who know what the gun used to be.

That said, any made before that will hold their own. I made Master with mine. Their use of MIM fire control parts in recent times is disappointing. Clark or Cylinder & Slide should do it right

I have a mid 70's 41 that came with the 7.375 inch barrel with the muzzle break.  I have tried the heavy barrel and the field barrel.  When I bought mine I wanted one with a heavy barrel but could not find one.  I ended up using the longer barrel without the muzzle break as I did not want to get it all crudded up and I did not think it made much of a difference.  I think once you get used to which ever barrel you get with the gun you will just stick to that.

I think the gun points better with the 7 3/8 barrel , my 2 cents.

Pistol Shooter's Treasury, maybe? An article about muzzle brakes. None of the pistols shot better with one. And maybe all of them worse.

The brakes look neat. Until you try to clean the lead out of the slots. Most folks where I have seen 41s being used, had the brake in a box at home, and used the false muzzle in its place. It doesn’t look good, but is easy to clean.
Out of all barrel types, once I found a 5” model 41 with extended front sight, that is all I want to use.

mikemyers wrote:

WesG wrote:......Factory grips are kinda fat for me, and make a long reach to the trigger. Need to play with that a bit. A little roll in the trigger would be nice too......

.......Another hassle is cleaning it with a dot sight mounted. Its also not possible to use a rod from the breech, pull thru only. But man, what a trigger.

Two quick thoughts - I found lots of stocks/grips for the Model 41 last time I did a search.  I like the Altamont stocks; in my hands, they "feel" narrower.
https://www.altamontco.com/pistol-grips/smith-and-wesson/41/
Because of a gun broker mix-up, I ended up with three pair of them, one that I kept, and one that was for my brother, but which is now boxed up on its way to Dave Salyer to try.  If you make any reasonable offer, you can get my third set, but it's "brown", not "red", even though the box says Rosewood.  Their mistake.

Cleaning - I have the same issue with my Clark barrel - my solution was to use a longer cleaning rod.

I truly don't understand what is being said about cleaning of the 41. They may be the easiest pistol in the world to clean. Lock back the slide and pull the take down lever (trigger guard) .Since the dot/sight is mounted to the barrel this results in no change of zero. You now have the barrel (exposed from both ends) in one hand and the frame in the other. Further disassembly of the frame is achieved by pulling back while lifting up on the slide (if needed)
 This whole process is so fast and easy you can do it between stages. Just my .02 worth.

Does anybody here have any experience with the CMM Shooting Sports straight grip adaptors (1911 style) for the 41?

I have the CMM grip adaptor on my model 41.  Very good quality product.  You may need to do minor fitting by filing the adaptor, it is aluminum, so that is pretty easy.  Also, be careful not to over tighten the two small screws that are supplied.

I like it a lot.  If you also shoot a 1911, it does provide a pretty similar grip and grip angle.

OK. It sounds worth trying out.
Thank you!

Rink-Formgriffe in Germany also offers M41 1911 style grips. My past experience with Rink is the frame fit needs slight adjustment for where the grips fit in the frame windows, but I consider that better than a loose fit. I had to do this with Rink Hammerli X-esse grips (Anatomical and universal) and a CMM adapter for a Hammerli X-esse.

Product information "Universal grip, 1911 style" For only Hammered 208, 215, Xesse / Smith & Wesson M41 / Steyr sport LP5, LP50

The CMM grip adapter lets you use 1911 panels but the panels may need some fitting to the frame.

Just got Dick Horton grips for my 41. Easily as good as Nill, and fit like
a glove.

LenV wrote:

mikemyers wrote:

WesG wrote:......Factory grips are kinda fat for me, and make a long reach to the trigger. Need to play with that a bit. A little roll in the trigger would be nice too......

.......Another hassle is cleaning it with a dot sight mounted. Its also not possible to use a rod from the breech, pull thru only. But man, what a trigger.

I truly don't understand what is being said about cleaning of the 41. They may be the easiest pistol in the world to clean.

Yeah, that comment was regarding the FWB. Some cutting of a couple paragraphs just got me a bit confused too.

Colt711 wrote:The cleaning comment confused me too. I had the CMM straight adaptor and thought it a nice idea and well made. My pistol had the long barrel but trimmed to 5.5".  Had fwd grooves cut in the slide ala the 208. With Herret's alternatng black & walnut grips (waxed to a soft finih) it was a very nice looking pistol.


After purchasing 2 conversion units I sold the gun. At times I regret the sale.


Ron

I like your style. Had the same done on my M41 to make it easier to use. The S&W shallow rear slide serrations were useless on my 1978 model.

I made a base for the FWB, barrel mounted, so I could pull the dot to remove the slide for cleaning...

Giant PITA... next one is a lower for a Nelson.

Sa-tevp wrote:

Colt711 wrote:The cleaning comment confused me too. I had the CMM straight adaptor and thought it a nice idea and well made. My pistol had the long barrel but trimmed to 5.5".  Had fwd grooves cut in the slide ala the 208. With Herret's alternatng black & walnut grips (waxed to a soft finish) it was a very nice looking pistol.


After purchasing 2 conversion units I sold the gun. At times I regret the sale.


Ron

 Had the same done on my M41 to make it easier to use. The S&W shallow rear slide serrations were useless on my 1978 model

Reaching under the pistol is an ergonomic movement thus its eems S&W might cut the FWD grooves especialy considering the gun is supposedly a high end piece intended for competition. I have never gotten over not having the Hi-Standards as modified by Giles & Clark back "in the day"!!

Ron