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Triggers - Types and Shoes

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jglenn21
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Post by Orion Tue May 30, 2023 11:08 pm

What are the different types of triggers (roll, crisp, etc) and how different are they? I've heard a lot about of different people's triggers and wouldn't know how a Doug Hall / KC / etc. trigger shoots. 

I have always shot Les Baer pistols and accepted 3.5 or 4.0 lb triggers as they were installed. What type of trigger might I have, thinking a crisp trigger pull? I also have a Salyer pistol where the trigger is a crisp trigger. 

Also, what are the benefits of a trigger shoe? 

Thanks
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Post by javaduke Wed May 31, 2023 12:59 am

Roll triggers are essentially a smooth creep triggers (for the lack of a better analogy). When you pull the trigger, you can feel it moving for some time before the hammer falls. It's like having a roll bearing there. The duration of this roll can be short, long or somewhere in between.
In my opinion it has advantages and disadvantages, so it's more of a matter of personal preference. Some like it crisp, some like rolls.
The trigger shoe can make the trigger feel lighter because the pressure of your trigger finger is spread over larger area. It's just a perception, it still lifts 3.5 pounds but just feels lighter.

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Post by Froneck Thu Jun 01, 2023 7:28 pm

I like the short roll trigger that I describe as an up hill roll in that as finger pressure increases the trigger will move more. Others have weight decreasing and feels like falling, result is something like crisp but with lot of movement. Short up-hill roll helps in timed and especially rapid fire. Takes my mind off the trigger, I feel it moving so know it will soon fire! If I use a long roll it slows the trigger pull and I struggle with getting the last shot off in time.
 I have been making triggers shoes for quite some time. I started with a copy of an Ace shoe that my son wanted but were discontinued. So of course he took the shoe I had, I removed it but couldn't remember why (Frank Jr not Adam). When I returned from Perry I decided to make one. The top to bottom length was longer because I didn't like the stubby Ace. First one I made I didn't serrate it, I was being lazy and wanted to test the concept. I liked it very much so proceeded to make another with serrations, didn't like it! Seem the felt pull weight didn't lower but seemed to increase. I removed the serrations and it too felt great like the first one! Soon guys at my club wanted a shoe until I was requested by a non competition shooter for one that looked gold, he wanted a Gold trigger on his 1911. Having a good bearing bronze (Aluminum Bronze) I made 4 from it. (I start buy making a ring and cutting it into 4 shoes) I buffet it to give it the gold like appearance. When I tested it the trigger weight seem much less but it was the same at 3.6 pounds! The smooth polished shoe reduced the perceived weight so much I took weights to matches to prove to others the trigger was legal!
 So yes the added width lowers the perceived weight but material and very smooth finish reduces it more.

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Post by rich.tullo Thu Jun 22, 2023 1:15 pm

Can you make one for a Hammerli Xesse?
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Post by Froneck Fri Jun 23, 2023 2:40 pm

I don't have the X-esse so it would be hard to make a shoe. If someone has a trigger, send it to me and I'll see what I ca do.

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Post by messenger Fri Jun 23, 2023 4:28 pm

I have put trigger shoes on all my 1911's. The problem is now my finger has got to reach 3/16" further. That was cured by going with a short trigger. the expense was worth it. the trigger shoe gives the illusion of a lighter trigger. Love it!

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Post by Froneck Fri Jun 23, 2023 10:30 pm

Interesting that the shoe added 3/16". Usually the shoe will add 1/16". However when requested I do make shoes that will add to pull length, a few guys with long fingers requested shoes to add 1/4" to a Long trigger.

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Post by jglenn21 Sat Jun 24, 2023 5:29 am

Rich, I found an air pistol trigger shoe on Ebay that worked fine in my trailside. It is aluminum and was described as an 8mm shoe..wide enough to fit. Only pistol I have a shoe on these days
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Post by wingnut170 Sat Jun 24, 2023 10:44 am

Froneck wrote:Interesting that the shoe added 3/16". Usually the shoe will add 1/16". However when requested I do make shoes that will add to pull length, a few guys with long fingers requested shoes to add 1/4" to a Long trigger.

Can you do one for a SW 41?

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Post by Froneck Sat Jun 24, 2023 11:02 am

I've done a few for the 41, a bit of a pain in the butt! E-mail me at FSCO@pa.net.

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Post by RoyDean Sat Jun 24, 2023 12:05 pm

I have bought several "gold" Pardini trigger shoes from Frank. Excellent quality, workmanship and fast turnaround. Great product. In my case I prefer them over the OEM Pardini shoe because it helps to position my finger in the same spot every time and also puts more finger surface in contact. Having said all of that, I'm currently seriously struggling with Pardini triggers, so what do I know? Mad Embarassed

For me at least, triggers are a crazy mind game and on a 1911 I actually prefer a medium length trigger with no shoe. Only after extensive shooting of custom 1911's with "perfect" trigger jobs have I come to understand what kind of trigger action really suits me (very short roll, just shy of crisp, that makes the gun go bang right when I want it to). I have found that even the very best 1911 gunsmiths cannot always get them perfect first time, sometimes takes two or three goes. And I know of at least one Elite shooter who carries a set of stones and jigs with him and often does trigger jobs the night (or even that morning) right before a big match!

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Post by tovaert Sat Jun 24, 2023 12:20 pm

I have a Colt NM 1911 with the factory .35" wide trigger. I prefer that over the typical .25" width. I've modified two shoes to .35 wide, for .25 triggers.

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Post by Froneck Sat Jun 24, 2023 2:23 pm

I started making shoes when my son found he wanted a shoe and none were available. Being I'm a shooter I have made shoes or Pardini triggers that were altered to what the shooter felt was best for him. That is the reason for a shoe, make the trigger feel better! I have made a number of shoes that were less in width than the standard 17/32" (.532" same as the old Ace shoe) Thinnest I can make a shoe is 3/8" due to shortest set screws available is 1/16" long. I did make a few for Adam that were .360" wide because action shooting limits trigger width to no wider than trigger guard. Trigger will need to be dimpled to allow 1/16" set screw. Other materials than Aluminum Bronze for very narrow shoes seem to be a bit hard to make since shoe being only .35" wide will have a wall thickness on each side of only .050" Softer material like steel, stainless steel even titanium will then to bend. I doubt aluminum will work, if used will not stay on the trigger long! As to Pardini triggers, I was asked by a shooter that installed 1911 grips to his Pardini for a similar trigger to the 1911 shoe but tilt the angle back 3° not 10° forward like the Pardini trigger. Soon those that did not have 1911 grips wanted the 10° tilt. Width and angle can be altered upon request though the tilt angle and width is limited.
 As to 1911 triggers, I too like the slight roll, I can get the trigger to roll exactly the same way every time. I did for Adam when he was home. Stoning of the sear, one has to understand that when the sear is stoned each time it is getting shorter, that changes the angle of engagement with the hammer hooks. So angle has to be changed depending on how much material is removed. There is quite a bit involved in re-stoning a sear plus I've checked quit a few of the stoning jigs and found they were not square so one side of the sear is different from the other side, to add to the problem many 1911 frames don't have the sear and hammer pins parallel!

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