Bullseye-L Forum
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

How can this be EIC legal???

+15
randy86314
lonegunman
mbmshooter
PacFltShooter
8eightring
Rodger Barthlow
WesG
Orion
Wobbley
bruce martindale
Jon Eulette
Merick
KBarth
james r chapman
NukeMMC
19 posters

Page 2 of 2 Previous  1, 2

Go down

How can this be EIC legal??? - Page 2 Empty How can this be EIC legal???

Post by NukeMMC Tue Jun 27, 2023 4:12 pm

First topic message reminder :

In the quest for my final 10 Service Pistol leg points (my first 20 were from the early 90s), I decided to chase the rabbit down a hole and bought a 9mm Range Officer.
How can this be EIC legal??? - Page 2 20220615

Then I decided to have it converted to 38super.  I shot a 38supercomp Open pistol in USPSA and absolutely loved the reliability of feeding that rimless, long-ish brass in the 1911 platform.  Off to Jon Eulette it went.  A KKM 0.355" 1:16" twist tube got fitted, trigger job done, slide needed just a smidge of tightening and back it came.  A NukeMMC stippling job and it was good to go.  Initially I ran it with 115gr HAP bullets and 5.2gr of 231 to loosen it up and have good accuracy at 50yds.
How can this be EIC legal??? - Page 2 20230622

About that time, CMP decided to change rules on me and allow lead bullets.  SO I chased that rabbit just a bit deeper ... bought some 125 and 150gr SWCs.  Hmmm ... a 0.356" 150gr Brazos SWC with 3.2gr of Titegroup or 3.0gr of Bullseye was quite pleasant in sustained fire.  Well shoot ... seems to me 148gr isn't far from 150gr ... and 0.358" isn't far from 0.356".  If my Ed Brown magazines release the round late enough to guide into the chamber but soon enough to not be cock-eyed on entry in the chamber, maybe I could use some of these H&G 50 wadcutters I have laying around ... 

So a little loading was done.  I have 24 loose pieces of Starline 38sc brass.  4 got loaded with 3.0gr of Titegroup.  20 got 2.7gr of Bullseye (gee ... sounds like a 38 special load Wink).
How can this be EIC legal??? - Page 2 20230623

Cycled them thru the pistol by hand.  Since these bullets were designed for semi-auto 38spl shooting, this shouldn't be a surprise.  All went thru just fine, so let's give it a go.

Shot them at 25yds today.  Here's my 2nd 2 mags of the 2.7gr BE load in a TF cadence.  I think if I can get these bullets sized to 0.356" and tune the load a bit, this answers any need to try and fight a 38spl 1911 build and locating the uber-expensive magazines.  The Ed Brown 38super mags are $28.  This load doesn't quite lock the slide back, but it completely cycles.  Another 0.1 or 0.2gr and we're in business. 
How can this be EIC legal??? - Page 2 20230624

Does it shoot soft?  You tell me ...
https://youtu.be/zVbbf-pu1NE

So now this is a CMP EIC legal service pistol that is essentially a 38spl wadcutter, only 1/8" shorter and significantly less expensive.

Hey Jon ... What do you think about a frame-mounted dot with this setup?
NukeMMC
NukeMMC

Posts : 484
Join date : 2018-10-12

SkullAero, shanneba and L. Boscoe like this post

Back to top Go down


How can this be EIC legal??? - Page 2 Empty Re: How can this be EIC legal???

Post by NukeMMC Thu Jul 13, 2023 2:20 pm

Read the 2023 CMP rules, specifically 4.1.1. Basically you can now use any centerfire cartridge from 9x19 to 45acp. The pistol design should be of a type that is suitable for use in a general duty scenario (i.e., military, law enforcement, etc.).
NukeMMC
NukeMMC

Posts : 484
Join date : 2018-10-12

Back to top Go down

How can this be EIC legal??? - Page 2 Empty Re: How can this be EIC legal???

Post by Jon Eulette Thu Jul 13, 2023 3:38 pm

randy86314 wrote:
The 38 Special WC in a pistol is notoriously sensitive to follow-thru at 50 yards.

I disagree about the follow through sensitivity. Yes I see that you're a HM and I respect that, but I believe follow through is overhyped. I mostly see it used as a crutch for shooting poorly.

I have a torn labrum and my hold suffers severely because of it. I shoot in pain and put the pistol down really quick after breaking a SF shot.
The attached target was shot with next to zero follow through. Shot broke and arm brought right down. Accepting the hold and breaking clean shots is why the results are good. 

In my experience the shooters struggling with the .38 special 148 HBWC are struggling with their other pistols as well, so it's easy to blame the .38 instead of their shooting ability.

Jon

How can this be EIC legal??? - Page 2 38_spl10
Jon Eulette
Jon Eulette

Posts : 4399
Join date : 2013-04-15
Location : Southern Kalifornia

rburk likes this post

Back to top Go down

How can this be EIC legal??? - Page 2 Empty Re: How can this be EIC legal???

Post by WesG Thu Jul 13, 2023 7:18 pm

Follow through ... long time ago watched a guy shooting a flintlock pistol. Flash in the pan, gun didn't move.

Range manager said he was state muzzle loading pistol champion.

WesG

Posts : 623
Join date : 2018-09-21
Location : Cedar Park, TX - N CA

Back to top Go down

How can this be EIC legal??? - Page 2 Empty Springs

Post by mikey2596 Sat Jul 15, 2023 9:11 am

What springs were you using  with the Brazos 150 load?

mikey2596

Posts : 10
Join date : 2021-04-14
Location : AR

Back to top Go down

How can this be EIC legal??? - Page 2 Empty Re: How can this be EIC legal???

Post by NukeMMC Sat Jul 15, 2023 10:10 am

mikey2596 wrote:What springs were you using  with the Brazos 150 load?
See my and Jon Eulette's posts from 7/12.

Jon told me not to go below 9 or 10, which I am paying attention to.  As it is, the ramped barrel has to be tapped out of the slide, which tells me the slide is getting peened from impacting the spring guide.
NukeMMC
NukeMMC

Posts : 484
Join date : 2018-10-12

Back to top Go down

How can this be EIC legal??? - Page 2 Empty Re: How can this be EIC legal???

Post by Jon Eulette Sat Jul 15, 2023 11:18 am

NukeMMC wrote:
mikey2596 wrote:What springs were you using  with the Brazos 150 load?
See my and Jon Eulette's posts from 7/12.

Jon told me not to go below 9 or 10, which I am paying attention to.  As it is, the ramped barrel has to be tapped out of the slide, which tells me the slide is getting peened from impacting the spring guide.
You sure your not confusing for the tight bushing to slide fit?
Jon
Jon Eulette
Jon Eulette

Posts : 4399
Join date : 2013-04-15
Location : Southern Kalifornia

Back to top Go down

How can this be EIC legal??? - Page 2 Empty Re: How can this be EIC legal???

Post by randy86314 Sat Jul 15, 2023 3:40 pm

Jon said:  ". . . but I believe follow through is overhyped. I mostly see it used as a crutch for shooting poorly."

Can you tell me what that means? Poor scores can be attributed to many factors.

Shooter betters than I will attest that follow thru is critical.

randy86314

Posts : 26
Join date : 2019-07-23

Back to top Go down

How can this be EIC legal??? - Page 2 Empty Re: How can this be EIC legal???

Post by Jon Eulette Sat Jul 15, 2023 5:46 pm

randy86314 wrote:Jon said:  ". . . but I believe follow through is overhyped. I mostly see it used as a crutch for shooting poorly."

Can you tell me what that means? Poor scores can be attributed to many factors.

Shooter betters than I will attest that follow thru is critical.
You are correct, many factors can attribute to poor shooting. Obviously.22’s are more forgiving because less recoil and lighter trigger pull weights. CF pistols with more recoil require better fundamentals to shoot well.
Recoil affects grip and stance. Not having a solid foundation will have more detriment to shooting good than follow through. Good follow through on a weak foundation does nothing.
5” barrel vs. 6” barrel; 5” more forgiving because of less muzzle rise/flip. Add poor foundation and will be worse with the 6” barrel.
Trigger squeeze is number one factor for either good shot or bad shot. Good follow through does nothing for a poorly squeezed trigger.
Good stance and good grip (the foundation) along with good trigger break gets the 10. Bullet time in barrel is very short, hold needs to be good less than a second to not interfere with bullets flight/trajectory.
I watch shooters exaggerate follow through and still shoot poorly. Follow through is way down on the list. Stance, grip and trigger squeeze much more important to consistently shooting good shots.
Is follow through important? Yes it is, but it’s not a saving Grace to shooting 10’s. 
So I don’t believe it’s critical. I do think it could be the difference between 2650 and 2670 though. One more positive being applied.
Jon Eulette
Jon Eulette

Posts : 4399
Join date : 2013-04-15
Location : Southern Kalifornia

mbmshooter and randy86314 like this post

Back to top Go down

How can this be EIC legal??? - Page 2 Empty Re: How can this be EIC legal???

Post by rich.tullo Sat Jul 15, 2023 8:04 pm

At 2.7 to 3.0gn  I would not be too concerned about case pressure but it is a good idea to check the spent primers. Full house 38spl can be almost as fast as mid range 357 mag. The case was designed for very high pressures. 

While I understand the idea was to go economical, RMR makes some modestly priced 38 supper / 9mm FMJ bullets called the match winner. I run 124gn in my tricked out PPQ which prefers those, but the 147gn Match Winner shoots soft and is accurate. They also make a 135gn.
rich.tullo
rich.tullo

Posts : 1915
Join date : 2015-03-27

Back to top Go down

How can this be EIC legal??? - Page 2 Empty Re: How can this be EIC legal???

Post by Ed Hall Sun Jul 16, 2023 9:43 am

The main point of follow through is to remain focused until the shot happens.  In this regard, follow through can help if the shooter is not determined enough to hold through the completion of the trigger operation.  If the shooter anticipates the shot happening and relaxes or tries recovering prior to the hammer fall, it will send stay shots, but as long as all is well through hammer fall follow through can be short.  Extra follow through during dry fire can help remove early relaxation or recoil anticipation.

Follow through does not have to mean a return to the target after recoil, but for some that approach helps them through hammer fall.

In all cases, be consistent.  Whether you return to the target or not do the same for every shot.

Ed Hall

Posts : 1050
Join date : 2012-09-11
Location : Adirondack Mountains

http://www.starreloaders.com/edhall/

Jack H, Jon Eulette, DA/SA, randy86314 and msmith44 like this post

Back to top Go down

How can this be EIC legal??? - Page 2 Empty Re: How can this be EIC legal???

Post by Jack H Sun Jul 16, 2023 6:05 pm

Ed Hall wrote:The main point of follow through is to remain focused until the shot happens.  In this regard, follow through can help if the shooter is not determined enough to hold through the completion of the trigger operation.  If the shooter anticipates the shot happening and relaxes or tries recovering prior to the hammer fall, it will send stay shots, but as long as all is well through hammer fall follow through can be short.  Extra follow through during dry fire can help remove early relaxation or recoil anticipation.

Follow through does not have to mean a return to the target after recoil, but for some that approach helps them through hammer fall.

In all cases, be consistent.  Whether you return to the target or not do the same for every shot.

That is how LTC Miller taught me in the 70s
Jack H
Jack H

Posts : 2636
Join date : 2011-06-10
Age : 74
Location : Oregon

randy86314 likes this post

Back to top Go down

How can this be EIC legal??? - Page 2 Empty Re: How can this be EIC legal???

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 2 of 2 Previous  1, 2

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum