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Walther GSP Ejector Problem

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Walther GSP Ejector Problem - Page 2 Empty Walther GSP Ejector Problem

Post by mbtimmons Thu Jul 20, 2023 10:43 am

First topic message reminder :

This is a Walther GSP in .32 S&W Long. I purchased it new just a few years ago. In that time, I have broken the ejector 3 times now. Two times, I was just shooting the pistol when it either stopped ejecting the casings, or on the most recent occurrence, I saw the broken piece on the bench. The part is not that expensive, but since I cannot replace it myself, sending it in for repair is a major hassle. the third time happened when trying to remove a jammed round, so that one was on me.

I shot 1.4 grains of Bullseye Powder primarily, but used 1.8 grains for the 50 yard targets for a while. I did not own a chronograph at the time, so no idea what velocity the 1.8 gr BE was pushing, but the typical 1.4 BE's were between 600 and 650 fps. I was warned that I was probable shooting too hot of a load. With that in mind, I stopped loading the 1.8 gr BE and just dealt with 50 yds with the 1.4 BE Loads. When the Covid shortages hit and I could not find Bullseye, I switched to Titegroup at 1.5 - 1.6 grains. Have not chronographed it yet with the Titegroup, but probably will after I get the repaired gun back.

Has anyone else experienced a broken ejector? If so, any idea why it broke? For those who haven't, do my loads or velocities sound right? I asked Earl and he is reluctant to suggest a load or a velocity, only saying that the spent shell casing should only eject 1-2 feet. Otherwise, the load is too hot and will break the ejector.

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Post by shanneba Mon Jul 31, 2023 11:33 am

mbtimmons wrote:

CCI Standard is supposed to be 1070fps, but when I tested them, the 10 shot average was only 933fps with the fastest being only 952fps. 

The CCI SV 1070 fps velocity is from, I believe a 20" rifle barrel.
The CCI Catalog gives an estimated pistol velocity of 940 fps. (no mention of barrel length)

Catalog (cci-ammunition.com)

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Post by mbtimmons Mon Jul 31, 2023 11:38 am

Ok, then my results are within a reasonable margin of variation.

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Post by DA/SA Mon Jul 31, 2023 12:11 pm

You may find that the published velocity numbers for a lot of .22lr is derived from a rifle, not a pistol, hence the lower numbers you are finding with your chrono.

I chrono tested some CCI SV a while back just because I had the chrono out and it was in the 900 range.
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Post by fc60 Mon Jul 31, 2023 3:05 pm

Greetings,

You are making great progress.

To fine tune things, sort your brass by head stamp.

GFL WadCut (Fiocchi) is suitable for full length wadcutters like Bear Creek.

StarLine can be made to work with a little care.

I have some PPU but have not used it.

My personal favorites are Lapua and R-P. Both have uniform case wall thickness that allow seating the HBWC without distorting the base.

Velocity? About 700-730 FPS will generally get you into the ten ring at 50 yards.

You will find that bullet quality will have a great affect on 50 yard accuracy.

Bear Creek are okay. Just remember they are mass produced. Examine each bullet visually with care and reject any that are not "perfect". Save the rejects for 25 yard shooting and practice.

I did find a Bear Creek test target fired at 50 yards with a Pardini HP barrel mounted in a test fixture.

Cheers,

Dave
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Post by mbtimmons Mon Jul 31, 2023 6:07 pm

I have reused all my current brass several times each, maybe even as much as 10 times. I know some Master level shooters talk about using brass once or twice before replacing. I guess it must make a difference, but I don't know why.

When I look for new brass, I can't find G.F.L., but I can find Starline and even PPU. I can find Lapua, but my stingy bone flinches at the price. "StarLine can be made to work with a little care." What would need to be done to make it work?

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Post by fc60 Mon Jul 31, 2023 7:01 pm

Greetings,

The issue with using mixed brass in the small calibers is pressure.

StarLine has thick walls and Fiocchi thinner walls.

Using the same amount of powder in each case with the same weight bullet produces higher pressure/velocity with StarLine than Fiocchi.

The difference can be about 30 FPS.

To load the StarLine with the 0.314" Bear Creek bullet use this process...

Size fired cases and deprime so the outside diameter is 0.336". (A Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die MIGHT work for sizing only.)


If desired, wash cases to clean away the crud/dirt.

Prime the case, flare the mouth (Do not use an expander, flare the mouth only.), and charge with powder.

Seat the bullet by hand. It should go into the case about half way with thumb pressure.

Cycle the press to seat to length.

Crimp as desired. (Taper will extend case life.)

What happens as a result of the above is the bullet skirt is slightly compressed upon seating. The loaded cartridge should show no signs of "bulging" were the case walls thicken.

With StarLine or Federal brass (Dimentionally, they are very close.), a charge of 1.4-1.5 grains of Alliant Bullseye works well.

Put out a "Brass Wanted" post asking for Lapua, R-P, or Fiocchi once fired cases. You never know what folks have in the garage gathering dust.

Cheers,

Dave
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Post by Fezzik68 Mon Jul 31, 2023 7:56 pm

+1 for Lapua, R-P, or Fiocchi cases. I haven't had much luck with Starline for the .32

I have had excellent results with these loads and have the targets to back up the data.
Measured with an acetate overlay, all shot with my GSP-C. (see pics)

Walther GSP Ejector Problem - Page 2 32_swl11


I utilized my Covid time verifying the rated fps of every brand of 22LR I had available to me.
Used a Ruger Mark III to find what I wanted to try in the GSP. (see pics)
Rated FPS is from a rifle barrel, actual is less. Shorter barrel, less time to build pressure.

Walther GSP Ejector Problem - Page 2 22lr_c10

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Post by mbtimmons Wed Aug 02, 2023 4:38 pm

Dave,  Thanks for the detailed explanation. I have calipers, but I don't have a micrometer. Looks like I need to add it to my equipment list. You mentioned that Starline is thick walled and Fiocchi is thin. I think PPU is even thinner. I base this on a period in which I tried to cast my own bullets and when I loaded them, the bullets with the PPU head stamp would chamber, the others would not chamber. There was a visible bulge in the case. I stopped trying to cast them, because while I cast usable 200gr SWC for my .45, the 98gr took more careful pours than I could do to get them consistent.

Fezzik, I am guessing that AA #2 refers to Accurate #2. Thanks for the chart. I have both Bear Creek 98gr HWBC and Missouri 98gr DEWC. I need to see what I can develop.

Taking both posts together, I separated out 10 each of the G.F.L., Starline, and PPU. Using my Powder trickle, I loaded all 30 with the same powder load. Next week I will run them thru the Chrono and look at the consistency of the velocity. At the same time, I'm going to see what shot groups I get. I decided if I am going to go to all this effort, I might as well make the shot groups as consistent at possible. I've invested in a Ransom Rest. I'm hoping it arrives early next week. 

In the meantime, we have an Outdoor 1800 (not sanctioned) on Saturday.

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Post by fc60 Wed Aug 02, 2023 6:37 pm

Greetings mbtimmons,

What 32 mould were you using?

If you can find a discontinued RCBS 32-84-WC mould this bullet is short enough not to bulge the case when seating. 

Also, the discontinued Hornady 90 HBWC was of the length that did not bulge the case.

"Powder Trickle"? Did you use a digital or a beam scale?

Do you load with a Single Stage press or a Progressive?

Cheers,

Dave
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Post by Fezzik68 Wed Aug 02, 2023 7:45 pm

Yes, Accurate #2.
These loads were built up from less powder and groups opened up as I went higher than what you see. I thought there would be a correlation between FPS & accuracy, wasn't expecting a 60FPS swing.

Definitely over thinking on my part, but I was enjoying the process during the Covid years.

The Ransom Rest has been invaluable for load development and sighting in, the Labradar works amazingly well.

Now that I have working recipes to trust, off to work on fundamentals. 
Hold, trigger & positive reinforcement.

Enjoy!

-Jim

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Post by mbtimmons Wed Aug 02, 2023 9:28 pm

Dave, The mould was a 98gr DEWC made by ArsenalMold.com. I don't think a different mold would make much difference. The problem was not the mold so much as when I dumped the bullets, I would find buds  and bits where I let the flow hit the Spruel Plate wrong and the molds failed to fill completely. Also found a lot of ugly bullets where there would be voids and such in the bullets. 

I use a Lee Safety Powder Scale, a Beam Scale. As a rule, I use a Lee Pro 1000 for my .32's. I wanted to run 10 each with as close to 1.6gr of powder as I could get. The Lee Auto-Drum gets close, but it can vary a bit. So I removed the Powder Hopper and emptied the powder in the auto-drum back into the hopper. Then after loading the powder into the 30 cases, I ran them thru the progressive press to size the case, bell the opening, and then seat the bullets. More tedious, but if that process gives me a reliable, repeatable performance profile at 50 yards, I would be willing to do it for the 30+ rounds for the Outdoor 1800's. We only do it a few times a year. Most our 1800's are done using the 25yd slow fire target on our indoor range.

Fezzik, I noticed the spread in velocity between the WST and the True Blue. I would not have expected that either. Over thinking? When COVID shut down so much, what else was there to do. After reading so many varied suggestions on the forum, I realized that a cookie cutter approach was not going to work and I would have to try and find what my GSP likes to eat. The Ransom Rest was a budget thing. I've known for years that Bench/Bag groups would only take me so far. I go to the range with a preconceived idea as to which load should be the best and although I try to shoot them all the same, I know that I am just that little bit more patient when aiming the one I want/expect to be the best. Oddly, I can't convince my daughter to go to the range with me to load magazines. If she would just load the batches in a random order, then I could be more even handed. Anyway, I came into a small windfall and for $700.85 I got a Ransom Rest and 2 sets of Grip Inserts for the GSP and my 1911's at Champion's Choice.

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Post by Fezzik68 Thu Aug 03, 2023 5:26 am

I put a half full water bottle next to the Ransom when I am at the range. Let the vibrations in the water dissipate before each round. It takes a few rounds to settle the grip insert. I disregard my first 10 shots for group, use it to make sure the chrono is capturing properly. It takes a little time & patience to do correctly.

-Jim

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Post by mbtimmons Thu Aug 03, 2023 7:47 am

Both are really good advice. Can't say either would have crossed my mind. Thanks.

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Post by brassmaster Thu Aug 10, 2023 9:52 am

I have reviewed Dave & Fezzik68's information, data & test results and very much appreciate their sharing, However, I did not see in their posts, even going back to 2019, & other sources, any testing data or even a mention of Lapua .32-- 0.314- 98 grain HBWC Bullets. Is that because they do not meet acceptable accuracy expectations at 50yds, or they are too pricey? Lapua is $100.+/- more per thousand than Bear Creek and $75.+/- more than Speer Plinkers? I get that, but somewhere is there reliable 50yard test data for Lapua bullets using a mechanical rest & an accurate match pistol?
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Post by fc60 Thu Aug 10, 2023 10:12 am

brassmaster wrote:I have reviewed Dave & Fezzik68's information, data & test results and very much appreciate their sharing, However, I did not see in their posts, even going back to 2019, & other sources, any testing data or even a mention of Lapua .32-- 0.314- 98 grain HBWC Bullets. Is that because they do not meet acceptable accuracy expectations at 50yds, or they are too pricey? Lapua is $100.+/- more per thousand than Bear Creek and $75.+/- more than Speer Plinkers? I get that, but somewhere is there reliable 50yard test data for Lapua bullets using a mechanical rest & an accurate match pistol?
Greetings,

The Lapua bullets are a mystery to me.

I was gifted a box of Lapua commercial ammo in 98 grain. It shot X-Ring at 50 yards!!!

So, I bought 1,000 Lapua 98 grain bullets only in bulk to reload.

I could not find a combination that shot X-Ring at 50 yards???

This was done with a side by side test of Speer Plinkers, Speer Plinkers bumped up to 0.314", home swaged 0.314".

I tried factory Pardini barrels and Custom barrels.

My best effort was with a custom barrel made from a Bar-Sto 0.308" ten twist blank.

The Lapua bullets "look" nice and load well. In fact, they even measure 0.314" diameter.

If someone would kindly post a few test targets fired at 50 yards that shoot the Lapua bullet well, I, for one, would be most appreciative.

Cheers,

Dave
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Post by brassmaster Thu Aug 10, 2023 10:22 am

As always Dave thanks for sharing. I certainly liked that top target results, but I'm not going to sell or trade my Walter GSP Expert for a Pardini at this juncture. Looking forward to seeing additional data on the Lapua Bullets.
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Post by mbtimmons Thu Aug 10, 2023 10:58 am

Not to try and pull this thread back on the original topic, because I appreciate the Accuracy info, but I just broke my fourth ejector. I was actually getting ready to test some loads to start building a load I could use. I wanted to see if the Brass, Bullets, and powder that I have could be mixed into something acceptable. I had just mounted my GSP in my Brand New Ransom Rest and was firing 10 rounds to settle it into the grips. After the 10th round, I locked the bolt to the rear and saw the broken piece of the ejector.

I had been using a chronograph and recording each shot. I was using 1.6gr of Titegroup and Missouri Bullets' coated 98gr DEWC and mixed brass. The ten round group averaged 697fps with the fastest at 729fps and the slowest at 640fps. I checked the velocity as stated by the manufacturer of the following .32 S&W Long Wadcutters:
 1. Fiocchi - 800fps
 2. Lapua - 797fps
 3. Sellier & Bellot - 224 m/s (735fps)
 4. Magtech - 682fps

My ammo is slower than all but one and I can't believe that my ammo is too hot for the Pistol.

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Post by Fezzik68 Thu Aug 10, 2023 12:02 pm

Your loads are certainly within spec.
Could it be an obstruction on the bolt? Is the bolt twisting while sliding back?
If you assemble it without the bolt, does the ejector have play?

Sounds like whole the upper assembly needs a trip to Earls.

I have yet to see this issue on either of my Walthers.


brassmater & Dave, 
I think I have some Lapua 98gr. to play with, I just need to find the free time.

-Jim

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Post by mbtimmons Thu Aug 10, 2023 12:12 pm

This most recent repair on the Ejector resulted in a very wobbly, loose ejector. Previous repairs were tight and moved only under pressure. 

I've sent the entire upper to Earl before and even asked if there could be another issue that is making the pistol susceptible to this issue. He just repeats the comment that my ammo is obviously too hot.

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Post by fc60 Thu Aug 10, 2023 3:10 pm

Greetings mbtimmons,

Not being sarcastic; but, "I feel your pain."

Sadly, there seems to be only one Walther repair guy in the USA and from the comments you posted he does not know why the failures are occurring.

1.6 TiteGroup is below the starting load, according to Hodgdon, and your recorded velocities tend to support this.

By chance, do you live within driving distance to ZIP 98385? I would gladly offer a look-see to help determine what the problem is.

Perhaps Mr. David Sams could be a possible source for troubleshooting?

http://www.samscustomgunworksusa.com/

By the way, those factory velocities that they publish? FOR REFERENCE ONLY. Actual velocities vary considerably.

Curious, what brand of chronograph do you use?

Cheers,

Dave
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Post by mbtimmons Thu Aug 10, 2023 3:48 pm

Not exactly Driving Distance- over 1700 miles. Just a bit far to drive for even really good free help. Thanks for the offer.

I tried to mention to Earl that my Load was below the start point in my Lee Reloading Manual. He asked my if the load in the book was specifically for a Walther GSP. I said it was just for a 98 gr wadcutter. He then implied that what they said was the start point was irrelevant. 

As for the Chronograph, it is a ProChrono brand that sells at Midway for about $130, so it isn't a real expensive one. I was concerned that it may be inaccurate, so I borrowed a couple from a friend and took all three out on Monday. I shot 10 rounds through each and got real similar averages.
 1. Mine - 708fps, Std Dev 31.5.
 2. Caldwell - 689.5fps, Std Dev 33.5 (Borrowed #1)
 3. 3rd Chrono - 700fps, Std Dev 70.5 (Didn't look to see the brand).

If all the ammo was identical, highly unlikely, then my chronograph rated the speed a bit high. But more realistically, even with standard deviations from one round to the next, they were all pretty close.

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Post by Fezzik68 Thu Aug 10, 2023 7:45 pm

Walther GSP Ejector Problem - Page 2 98_lap10
Walther GSP Ejector Problem - Page 2 98_lap11

1.4gr WST - 675fps - 14.2 dev
2.1gr True Blue - 697 fps - 7.3 dev

Not convinced your loads are too hot, or the brass is stronger than the steel ejector.

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Post by brassmaster Thu Aug 10, 2023 8:48 pm

Jim, AKA Fezzik68, do you have any additional special rabbit targets to pull out of your hat? Obviously, you have done extensive testing toward finding the key to getting a substantial increase in a .32 GSP's accuracy. First time I've seen targets utilizing Lapua 98gr HBWCs producing those type of results.
Your test targets & data provide an excellent starting point toward achieving accuracy in an individual's pursuit of accurate results in their own 32 GSP by not having to start from square 1. Thank you.
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Post by bruce martindale Thu Aug 10, 2023 9:02 pm

If your cast bullets are hard you will get more recoil than with a hbwc.
Groove diameter is a big factor too. 1.4 wst in MY 0.314 Walther barrel is soft shooting and l even went up to 1.7 for 50 yards (730 fps) BUT in the 308 bbl, 1.4 has much more recoil and l wouldn't dare try 1.7 for fear of a burst. 

I would drop the charge and see if that helps. I'm a big fan of 1.4 wst

As to Lapua ammo, it didn't shoot well for me, but that was older box and one data point. Others weren't able to get the components to work either but again that could be lacking proper loading details. 32s are the most difficult  ctg l ever tried to load. A discussion with someone somewhere ( l forget who) of folks talking to Walther on how to get good handloads. Their reply was to buy Lapua. Retorted with “There must be a way to handload” to which W replied I will repeat myself, buy Lapua.

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Post by mbtimmons Mon Aug 14, 2023 8:09 am

The response from Walther is disappointing. Not surprising, but disappointing all the same. They don't want to get pulled into the Rabbit Hole of recommending a specific load. You probably know better than I that two completely factory original pistols will shoot just a little different. A hand load for one won't perform as well for the other. 

I had a similar problem with a gunsmith that was also an Authorized Walther Dealer when discussing the issue with my Ejector breaking (four times now as it broke another last Friday). He kept telling me that I needed to buy and shoot Lapua. I told him that my ammo had a lower muzzle velocity than the Lapua, so how was that going to help. It took some convincing to get him to accept that the info I was giving on the Lapua velocity was from Lapua and for the correct bullet weight. He never acknowledged that slower velocity meant lower force and therefore lighter recoil.

The reference to a 308 bbl: are you saying that you have a barrel for your Walther that has a .308" bore? If so, I gotta admit I don't think I would have been brave enough to try it.

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