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REVOLVERS FOR DR/SERVICE MATCHES

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Post by CarpeXRing Sun Aug 20, 2023 8:36 pm

What revolvers do you like for DR/Service Revolver matches and why?  Are there any out there that have a decent double action trigger?
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Post by Wobbley Sun Aug 20, 2023 8:48 pm

In no particular order
Colts: Officers Model Match, Python, Diamondback
S&W: 14, 19, 586, 686
Ruger: GP100
Other: Manhurin 

If you opt for a Colt OMM, you want one made post WW2.
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Post by RoyDean Sun Aug 20, 2023 10:46 pm

Ah! The Holy Grail - a decent double action trigger!

The PPC guys say that it is easy to find a good DA. But then they are the same guys who created SMOLTS and other weird devices. Jim C will no doubt chime in when he wakes up😜

I have two K16-4's (32 magnum Harry Reeves guns) which have, to my taste, almost perfect DA triggers, but I have not been able to find a K14 (I have owned several) that came close. Sent them to "specialists", etc., never got them just right.

Forget about Ruger revolvers - IMHO

Never owned a Colt, but the ones I have tried did not impress.

Korth. Good SA, but DA is mediocre even after specialist tweaking. Over-priced, under-performing. But they look impressive

Manurhin's - hmmm. Had to persuade a specialist to work on them (it was not hard, he lusts after them!). Very limited use, but, so far, quite nice, very close to perfect. But they are not inexpensive!

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Post by Tim:H11 Mon Aug 21, 2023 2:13 am

Wobbley mentioned the common revolvers we usually see at matches. Of those I would say the S&W variety are of the most common/popular. 

A good double action trigger .. well that’s somewhat subjective now isn’t it? what I might like, another shooter might dislike. I feel though that none of them have a good one out of the box stock. The best I’ve ever felt was a Colt and it had been worked over by someone who specialized in Colts - not just revolvers in general but he was a colt mechanic. 

I would like to point out that S&W is probably the best bet since springs and parts are still available and springs/parts for a colt can be tricky sometimes since colts are more widely viewed as collector pieces and production has been up and down. 

But here’s a final thought; why not shoot single action instead of double action? A single action trigger is a nicer feeling one, and it’s easier to make clean shots with.
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Post by james r chapman Mon Aug 21, 2023 3:19 am

My opinion?

Do as Tim:H suggests! He’s the guru of Bullseye revolver guys now!

Easiest to find would be one of the many S&W 14’s out there.

DA? Unless your built like Len or Phil, don’t bother!

Jim
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Post by TonyH Mon Aug 21, 2023 4:24 am

REVOLVERS FOR DR/SERVICE MATCHES 3064385617  Plenty of time in RF strings to shoot SA. I started with a Smith K-38 14-5 years ago, accurate and a great SA/DA trigger. I played around with other revolvers (Python, SW 586) for a minute....never found a reason to switch from the original.
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Post by chiz1180 Mon Aug 21, 2023 4:41 am

I shoot a 586 DA, the trick to DA (and revolver in general) is you need to figure your grip, and it may not be the same for shooting SA and DA.

One thing to consider is full underlug(586/686 in smith world) or not (most* 14s). Full underlug is significantly more muzzle heavy, which could be good or bad.
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Post by RoyDean Mon Aug 21, 2023 4:45 am

Tim:H11 makes a good point re parts availability, S&W no doubt easiest.

If you happen on a K14 with a DA that suits you (or know a specialist who can/will do what you need) then they are almost certainly the best bet.

As for "leaving DA to guys with big hands", well, that depends. I have med/lrg hands, but short fingers. Cannot comfortably reach the hammer without completely releasing my grip. Does not work. So I DA all but the first shot in both TF/RF.

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Post by Tim:H11 Mon Aug 21, 2023 8:37 am

I threw my revolver vid up on the bullseye L’s Facebook page if anyone is curious about single action shoot and having trouble reaching the hammer and struggling with grip.
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Post by Steve B Mon Aug 21, 2023 9:37 am

Manurhin MR38.

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Post by RoyDean Mon Aug 21, 2023 9:46 am

Hey Jason, I'd love to watch your video, but I'm not a Facebook user.

Wonder if there is a way to host it on this forum?

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Post by Merick Mon Aug 21, 2023 10:14 am

I would add the s&w 15 is capable and does not carry the premium model 14's often do.

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Post by CarpeXRing Mon Aug 21, 2023 11:28 am

Tim:H11 wrote:Wobbley mentioned the common revolvers we usually see at matches. Of those I would say the S&W variety are of the most common/popular. 

A good double action trigger .. well that’s somewhat subjective now isn’t it? what I might like, another shooter might dislike. I feel though that none of them have a good one out of the box stock. The best I’ve ever felt was a Colt and it had been worked over by someone who specialized in Colts - not just revolvers in general but he was a colt mechanic. 

I would like to point out that S&W is probably the best bet since springs and parts are still available and springs/parts for a colt can be tricky sometimes since colts are more widely viewed as collector pieces and production has been up and down. 

But here’s a final thought; why not shoot single action instead of double action? A single action trigger is a nicer feeling one, and it’s easier to make clean shots with.
Hey Tim, Concur with single action shooting.  Right now I am shooting a 686 and the single action trigger is outstanding.  What got me thinking about DA was watching my friend Roy shoot his revolver in DA at our most recent match.  I've tried it with my 686, but my rapid scores are still better using SA.  Any excuse to buy another gun lol.
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Post by RoyDean Mon Aug 21, 2023 1:14 pm

Ah ha! So now I know who carpexring is!

Had I known I would not have bored you with my response!

What you observed on Saturday was not a good example. That was a Korth I was shooting (first time since I got it back from a specialist and I had not practiced with it). I did not expect that we would be shooting CMP SR, otherwise I would have prepared better. Whilst the DA action on that gun is now quite smooth and can be nicely "staged" for TF, or pulled straight through for RF. I discovered during that match that I have to get my finger completely off the trigger after each shot in order to allow it to properly re-set. Not ideal. And it did not like some of my ammo. A match is not the place to learn all of that! Ho hum🥵

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Post by Tripscape Mon Aug 21, 2023 4:04 pm

When talking revolver DA there are several ways it can be properly achieved. I am talking for accuracy, not just speed shooting. 1) Smooth deliberate pull through of the entire action which requires a lot patience and training, finger muscle and wrist stability while doing it. 2) Stage up for the break via finger at the joint, which is not too hard. 3) Setting up for the break via properly tuned sear which will reduce pull force before the break. 

In SW action can be polished and relieved to the point that provides minimal part friction, allowing trigger return to come back fairly fast even using 11-12lb return spring. That takes some dedication, but I would not call it hard. You achieve a lower pull weight while not compromising return and strike force.

What is much harder is creating sear ledge that reduces pull to a minimum at the apex. Not just stacking, but actual pull weight goes down right before the break because DA is fully cocked and you are riding the sear surface for final break. Almost what RevUp Action does.

In SW the K, L, N are all the same action type internally. Some parts are dimensionally different due to frame size and of course mim vs not mim. Tuning is all the same. You cannot say my 10 can be tuned while 14 or 15 cannot as they are identical inside. 

Sorry, I digressed. The point is that SW can be tuned for DA faitly easily to be smooth and much lite (er) trigger. Together with smooth pull or finger joint staging the DA will be great.


Last edited by Tripscape on Mon Aug 21, 2023 4:39 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Tripscape Mon Aug 21, 2023 4:10 pm

I would like to add that tuning Korth Ratzburg hardcore sucked and did not produce much different results. DA pull went from 13 to a 10 and that's with minimum return spring  force. And there was tons of stacking. And that's with #5 wheel that reduces stackng.  I don't know about new ones, but I am no longer a Ratzburg fan.

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Post by Allgoodhits Mon Aug 21, 2023 4:27 pm

S & W K or L frame with action tuning by Sandy Garrett of Northern Virginia Gun Works in Springfield, VA.

Shooting  DA, firm high grip, plenty of trigger finger, grip even tighter, and once you commit to the trigger keep it moving.

If you are shooting non Distinguished, have a good trigger stop and consider Warren Moore's Revupaction hammer. Gun must be a new style with frame mounted FP.


Last edited by Allgoodhits on Tue Aug 22, 2023 10:00 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by rich.tullo Mon Aug 21, 2023 6:55 pm

Any good revolver smiths in NJ?
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Post by 4th Corner Traveler Tue Aug 22, 2023 12:35 am

The range I used to work at, had a Manufacturer's Day.  All of the brands available at the time were laid out and were free to shoot, using their provided ammo (they charged $$ for the ammo).  I tried the "newly released" S&W 586, a Colt and a Ruger.  I liked the way the Smith fit my hand and its ability to point at the target with little hand adjustment.  The next month, I purchased a 586 and started to shoot that until the 14-6 came out.  I sold the 586 and purchased the 14-6.  I have never regretted that.  With a lot of ranges now renting, it would be good to test drive a few before you made your decision?

As for DA in the T&R events, I am of no help.  I was told by an older shooter at one time, to experiment with different rebound springs if I wanted to shoot DA.  I have been doing okay with SA, so I have not pursued that.
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Post by Steve B Tue Aug 22, 2023 2:29 pm

I'd like to see that video of shooting SA in T&R.  My hand size wouldn't allow the thumb to cock the hammer without shifting the grip, so I had to learn how to shoot DA.  It's really pretty easy once you've got the technique.  The trigger can be staged, once the cylinder has rotated to the next round, as you're coming back into the target.  If you're smooth and steady just finish the pull as the sights settle in.  I went distinguished with a 14-4, didn't know anything about the Manurhin MR38 at that time.

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Post by faraim Tue Aug 29, 2023 9:16 am

I have a S&W K38, a Ruger GP100 and a Colt Officer's Model Match. The geometry of the Ruger doesn't work for me. No matter how I hold it, and I've experimented with different grips, I have to work to shoot it accurately. Last Saturday I took the other two out to the range. I haven't shot bullseyes with a revolver in at least 15 years, maybe a bit longer. These are timed fire practices. I used the Colt on the left, the K38 on the right. The single action trigger break on the Colt makes a big difference. However, the frame of the K38 is small enough for me to reach the trigger for double action fire. Something I can't do with the the larger Colt.REVOLVERS FOR DR/SERVICE MATCHES Img_2510
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Post by Amanda4461 Tue Aug 29, 2023 6:27 pm

This N-frame handled well, moonclips work well and she shoots pretty fair. Is she legal for NRA and/or CMP matches?
Thanks!
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Post by james r chapman Wed Aug 30, 2023 3:05 am

38 for both
.38-45 for CMP, Reeves
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