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Clean burning powder

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Bestdentist99
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Clean burning powder Empty Clean burning powder

Post by faraim 1/26/2024, 5:09 pm

I'll begin by apologizing for the title. I was one who always laughed at folks searching for clean burning powders. Just clean your handgun, right? However, last season I encountered some failures to feed that disappeared when I dismantled my Wilson magazines and gave them a good scrubbing. They were filthy with Bullseye residue. The 1911 was dirty also but the malfunctions seem to be magazine related. I've never cleaned my match guns before every match, a few times a season always worked. Or, as one of my early mentors told me, "Shoot more than you clean." Do any of you use powders that leave less build up. Likewise, If I'm missing the point and ought to be cleaning everyday and twice on Sunday, please let me know. Thanks.
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Post by L. Boscoe 1/26/2024, 5:22 pm

My experience is limited to W231 and VV310 and 320. That said, VV are generally cleaner, but any powder will give dirty results at low loads, so I have been told. Mine run about 750fps for 45acp, and 
VV gives much cleaner than W231 results.

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Post by chiz1180 1/26/2024, 5:26 pm

I shoot bullseye, and clean roughly every 500rnds. I shoot what some would consider warmer charges though. Shooting jacketed projectiles typically is cleaner than lead and will have a more significant improvement over switching powder. My guns run better clean, YMMV.
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Post by BE Mike 1/26/2024, 5:48 pm

Alliant e3 is about as clean as I've seen. A good starting load for .45 ACP is 3.5 grains under a 200 gr. or 185 gr. lead bullet.
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Post by Mike_Anderson 1/26/2024, 7:31 pm

I switched from Bullseye to WST about 10 years ago after reading an article written by Alex Hamilton about cleaner burning powders. My Clark built wad gun runs a little cleaner in the chamber now but I noticed the biggest difference in my revolvers, both the .38 spl and .45 acp. Accuracy was the same after I found the correct load to use.
Mike

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Post by BE Mike 1/26/2024, 9:36 pm

Mike_Anderson wrote:I switched from Bullseye to WST about 10 years ago after reading an article written by Alex Hamilton about cleaner burning powders. My Clark built wad gun runs a little cleaner in the chamber now but I noticed the biggest difference in my revolvers, both the .38 spl and .45 acp. Accuracy was the same after I found the correct load to use.
Mike
Ralph Talbot, a HM and former OIC of the AMU, used to do Alex Hamilton's machine rest tests. Ralph was a huge fan of WST and it worked for him. I tried it and it left a lot of unburned powder. I probably was doing something wrong, like not crimping tightly enough. I gave up on it before trying different things that may have given me better results.
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Post by blindshooter 1/27/2024, 12:41 am

BE Mike wrote:Alliant e3 is about as clean as I've seen. A good starting load for .45 ACP is 3.5 grains under a 200 gr. or 185 gr. lead bullet.
Purchased some e3 during the scamdemic, my LGS had some dusty 1lb jugs for like $20 ea. Bought them all. 

I use the same load with 185 gr. LSWC. Works great and I do believe its cleaner than BE.

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Post by Wobbley 1/27/2024, 1:39 am

A reason, perhaps, why e3 and WST and others are “clean” burning is perhaps that shotgun target loads have working pressures in the 11,500 psi range and yet they are relatively clean.  It is known that if you increase the pressures using “dirty” powders like bullseye they get cleaner.  So, perhaps, these shotgun powders are formulated jus a bit differently to work better at lower pressures?
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Post by Wobbley 1/27/2024, 1:40 am

This thread may fit better in “Ammunition Discussion”?  Do you want me to move it?
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Post by Larry2520 1/27/2024, 2:03 am

I have found Clays to be cleaner and somewhat softer in recoil. It measures about the same as bullseye. I use 3.8 behind a 200 grain bullet.

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Post by rburk 1/27/2024, 3:32 am

When I started shooting and reloading 45 a few years ago, I selected WST for powder, it is all I have used.  I meters really consistently, and seems to be pretty clean.  I shoot light loads, so there is unburnt powder, but overall I can go many hundreds of rounds without cleaning my 1911.

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Post by faraim 1/27/2024, 4:31 am

Wobbley wrote:This thread may fit better in “Ammunition Discussion”?  Do you want me to move it?
Yes, Wobbley. I started it thinking about cleaning intervals but it has progressed to more of a powder discussion. What great info! Thanks everyone.
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Post by rburk 1/27/2024, 7:39 am

I forgot to mention, the original post was regarding magazines that were fouled by powder residue.  I have used the same three magazines and have over 8,000 rounds through them with WST, and I have not cleaned them yet.  Not sure how to dismantle them for cleaning, they are the round follower Metalform magazines with the welded on base plates.

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Post by BE Mike 1/27/2024, 5:36 pm

rburk wrote:I forgot to mention, the original post was regarding magazines that were fouled by powder residue.  I have used the same three magazines and have over 8,000 rounds through them with WST, and I have not cleaned them yet.  Not sure how to dismantle them for cleaning, they are the round follower Metalform magazines with the welded on base plates.
Load up several rounds in the magazine. For safety sake, some dummy rounds would be best. Put a punch through the holes in the magazine closest to the follower, but under it. That takes the spring pressure off the follower. Now you can take a dental pick, bent paperclip etc. and pull out the follower. Once the follower is out, turn the magazine upside down close to a table or work bench and pull out the punch. That way the spring will be contained. It might take a little trial and error to find out just how many dummy rounds to put in the magazine and where to insert the punch.
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Post by BE Mike 1/27/2024, 5:47 pm

Larry2520 wrote:I have found Clays to be cleaner and somewhat softer in recoil. It measures about the same as bullseye. I use 3.8 behind a 200 grain bullet.
Unfortunately Hodgdon Clays appears to be out of production for a few years.
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Post by bruce martindale 1/27/2024, 9:47 pm

Something y’all haven’t considered….if your 1911 platform unlocks too soon, and trust me, many do, You get burned brass and guns that foul up quickly.

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Post by Bestdentist99 1/29/2024, 3:18 am

I stared using WST when I ran out of Bullseye and couldn’t find it anywhere. I get a lot of unburnt powder all over the gun. I tightened the crimp to .465, no change in amount of unburnt powder.
The gun is as dirty as using Bullseye and I still need to clean the gun after about 200 rounds otherwise the heavy carbon buildup on the rails right above the barrel bed and the barrel bed itself causes the slide to drag and stops it from going into battery.
The casings are burnt as much as using Bullseye.
Is there a fix for platform for unlocking too soon?

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Post by faraim 1/29/2024, 4:57 am

I believe unlocking too soon is determined by the shape of the lower barrel lugs. I suspect smarter folks than me will respond.
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Post by bruce martindale 1/29/2024, 7:46 pm

Bestdentist99 wrote:I stared using WST when I ran out of Bullseye and couldn’t find it anywhere. I get a lot of unburnt powder all over the gun.  
Hi,
What charge and bullets did you use? WST seems to be slower, as is 231, so light bullets with light charges is a bad deal. Crimp does boost bullet pull force somewhat.

Your gun lockup is what it is but a square firing pin stop will help that and recoil spring rate but sometimes all to the detriment of functioning. It’s a balance.

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Post by Centerline 1/29/2024, 7:53 pm

If you are unlocking too soon you will see vertical stringing on the target. Upgrade your recoil spring weight.

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Post by Bestdentist99 1/30/2024, 3:18 am

I use 4.0 gr WST under 185gr lead Zero bullets.

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Post by orpheoet 2/1/2024, 3:08 am

I switched to WST from Bullseye maybe 6 years ago. Definitely cleaner in my experience. 4.3gr with 160 and 185gr lead bullets. As far as the magazines I rarely clean them. I dont think I've ever cleaned my Accuracy X mags and no issues whatsoever.
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Post by Colt711 2/4/2024, 1:33 am

I've been using WST in .38 Spl (autoloader) recently. I expected a cleaner burn than w/ Bullseye which I have used mostly but don't see much difference. During the yrs I competed guns were always cleaned before matches. The only exception was if they were not used between.

WST dribbles out around my Star pdr slide & it's housing just enough to make the loader messy.  In the past I have used mostly Bullseye and a few other pdrs w/o  experiencing any leakage. Possibly RBWILING  would have a comment?

Ron

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Post by OHitt 2/4/2024, 5:19 pm

When I transitioned from carrying revolvers to semi autos during my law enforcement career, we were taught to clean magazines every time you cleaned your gun. I have carried that practice over to Bullseye. I use a plastic bushing wrench to push the follower down in the magazines with the crimped floor plate. I slide an AR firing pin through the witness holes between between the spring and the follower. Turn the magazine over and shake the follower out. You can then reinsert the bushing wrench and slowly remove the pin and spring. Magazine brushes are available to scrub out the magazine. Maybe over kill but no magazine related problems.

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