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Charles Daily 1911

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BE Mike
tovaert
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Post by tovaert Wed Feb 07, 2024 4:44 am

Saw one at a LGS. Basically, a 1911A1. Anyone know anything about them? Mixed reviews. Checked the website, says they are made in Italy, sold by Bass Pro.

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Post by BE Mike Wed Feb 07, 2024 6:49 am

[url=https://americanhandgunner.com/handguns/charles-daly-field-g-i-grade-1911/#:~:text=The Charles Daly Field G.I.,gun (the Superior Grade).]https://americanhandgunner.com/handguns/charles-daly-field-g-i-grade-1911/#:~:text=The%20Charles%20Daly%20Field%20G.I.,gun%20(the%20Superior%20Grade).[/url]
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Post by croesler Thu Feb 08, 2024 8:45 am

I have an older one, built in the 1990s (not sure who actually machined them then), that functioned perfectly with the stock barrel/slide but had fixed sights.  It shot a decent group when I got it, but was promptly dedicated to a Nelson conversion unit, where it serves perfectly.  I put in a KC roll trigger hammer and sear, and had some difficulty getting the safety back in. Filing became necessary. But now its awesome. Id say its the in the same quality range as a Rock Island or TISAS frame.  Not a "precision machined masterpiece" but maybe fine depending on application?  For a conversion lower, and for the price, its terrific.
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Post by Slamfire Wed Feb 14, 2024 9:11 pm

I consider the Charles Daly 1911 to be a rebranded Tisas 1911A1. There are differences, an arched back strap, knurling on the trigger, instead of the striations on my Tisas. The finish appears to be a bluing. Barrels are chromed on both

I don't know what the content laws are in Italy, but given today's technology, all of the parts could have been finished in Turkey, then shipped in boxes to Italy, where assemblers put the 1911 together without every having to touch a file. The final product does show Italian proof marks.

Charles Daily 1911 UnZDGKd




Charles Daily 1911 TpbFKmd

Sights are the same between the Charles Daly and Tisas

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The peculiar frame cut in the recoil plug channel is distinctive to Tisas, and I am going to claim the best evidence that the Charles Daly is made by Tisas.

Two Tisas pistols, one Charles Daly. Can you tell the difference?

Charles Daily 1911 EB7KGHl

The Charles Daly slide fits on the Tisas frame, and visa versa.

I like my Tisas pistols, they all go bang and shoot to point of aim with a 230 FMJ. This is all I can do at 50 yards with an iron sighted 1911, while this will not win any matches, you can hit the gong target at that distance.

Charles Daily 1911 Z30x6Xe

The Charles Daly does fine at 15 yards. Not a target pistol in my hands, but it will stay on a paper plate.

Charles Daily 1911 QmfUHjK

The recoil of a full power 45 ACP does not help my groups, I develop a bad flinch in short order, so I do not consider my groups a reflection of the inherent accuracy of the pistols.


I called Tisas and asked about the material used. I received two different answers on steel. One that did not make sense, and one that did. The reply that did make sense was that the steel is a 4140 equivalent.

This is what Tisas said about them, and their guns:

  • Tisas meets all NATO-spec and CIP certifications for manufacturing small arms. US-bound firearms meet SAAMI spec.
  • Barrels/slides/frames are hammer forged and heat treated/stress relieved and are regularly tested.
  • Slides/frames are machined from pre-hardened steel to prevent warping from post-machine heat treat. This slows cutting times and eats tooling but yields a more consistent product.
  • Tisas has eliminated MIM parts with the exception of the recoil spring plug, once any remaining parts inventories have been consumed. All current production are machined parts.



Tisas Promotion Film
 
https://youtu.be/ak4_HaYvaNc
 
Similar but with some AK47’s
 
Modern Ammunition Manufacturing Process: Inside Gun Factory
 
https://youtu.be/yDc3mKQq8Qs
 
 
As a comment, the factory floor is what I expect a medium sized CNC factory to look like. I have walked on old time fabrication shops, they were messy, dark,  noisy, and now, extinct.  With CNC machines you can rearrange them as needed for a different product flow. The old machines were typically single stage, bolted to the floor, and production flow resembled mazes. The product went way to the right, far to the back, then back to the right, then left, middle, front, etc, etc. And there used to be lots of inventory in piles on the floor. Today the production line is set up so things go through start to finish, no inventory in between. One advantage, if something is out of tolerance, the condition is picked up early, instead of finding out parts that were made three weeks ago are bad, which is what used to happen. 
 
I am sure the sequence of someone running a drill press is promotional BS to make the viewers feel good. It is too expensive to have a dedicated person running a  single stage drill press all day. Obviously they have a drill press, got to wonder why it is there.

I missed getting a Norinco 1911, those pistols were made of excellent materials and shooters that own them, are very happy with their Norinco's. I decided not to let current anti Muslim propaganda put me off from a Turkish bargain, and I have to say, my Tisas 1911's all go bang, are tight, the triggers acceptable for a service pistol. Let me comment on a Gun Store comparison between a new Colt and a Tisas. The Tisas was tighter in slide fit and barrel fit. The Colt had slide to frame movement and a perceptible give when pressing on the barrel hood. The Tisas did not.  The Colt had better grips, a wonderful bluing job. Of course I was not able to shoot the Colt, but I really doubt it was $1000 better in function.

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Post by RoyDean Thu Feb 15, 2024 6:03 am

Slamfire.

Wow, impressive response. Good man.

Charles Daly have used "contract suppliers" for at least 50 years. Excellent Miroku shotguns were re-labelled and sold like hot cakes, when the "Japanese" brand was not favored in 60's & 70's USA. In Europe the identical guns were Miroku and were equally popular!

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Post by Slamfire Thu Feb 15, 2024 3:35 pm

RoyDean wrote:Slamfire.

Wow, impressive response. Good man.

Charles Daly have used "contract suppliers" for at least 50 years. Excellent Miroku shotguns were re-labelled and sold like hot cakes, when the "Japanese" brand was not favored in 60's & 70's USA. In Europe the identical guns were Miroku and were equally popular!

Thank you. As for rebranding, I remember when the Chevy Nova was a Toyota Corolla. And the humorous thing was, Toyota was selling their Corolla's at a premium because buyers wanted Japanese cars. And Chevrolet had to  sell the "Toyota" Nova at a discount because GM vehicles were considered unreliable and low quality.

Brixia is selling Tisas manufactured 1911's under their name, and Charles Daly is selling Brixia 1911's under their name. This is nothing new.  My boss at the Appliance store when I was in high school,  told me after WW2 all refrigerators on the market were made by Norge.  So you can image a Sears Kenmore, purchased from Whirlpool, was a Norge. 

Here's one, pet food recalls. See how many brands are actually produced by one supplier:  https://www.fda.gov/animal-veterinary/outbreaks-and-advisories/fda-alert-certain-lots-pet-food-multiple-brands-recalled-aflatoxin

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Post by rich.tullo Thu Feb 15, 2024 6:37 pm

I had a Charles Daly Marketed by Armescor. It was a good gun and I think NJ Juniors are still shooting it.
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