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Larry's Guns/Red Feather Hammerli Scope Mount Reliability issues

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Froneck
Ed Hall
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Larry's Guns/Red Feather Hammerli Scope Mount Reliability issues Empty Larry's Guns/Red Feather Hammerli Scope Mount Reliability issues

Post by jareds06 5/21/2024, 3:29 pm

So I have the LGI/RFO mount and I tried shooting it in my most recent 2700 and it was so unreliable that I had to dismount it after it caused me to malfunction in the first rapid fire string and then again in my alibi/refire string (costing me 20 points and dropping me just below 2600 to 2588 frustratingly). Seriously, it would malfunction every 3 or 4 shots even in slow fire. As soon as I removed it, the malfunctions stopped. The malfunction that was occuring was the empty shell was getting bounced back in the way of the slide when feeding the next round. Any tips to improve reliability? Maybe a new ejector that more reliably kicks the shells out to the side rather than up and out? My working plan right now was to take an angle grinder and cut off the portion that covers the ejection port and the mount the red dot further forward. 

I did notice that when I switched back to irons, the shells did eject more upward than they did off to the right. Could this be weak extractor tension or a worn out ejector?

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Post by Toonces 5/21/2024, 7:35 pm

I had one instance of that with my new 208s in 1998.  As instructed by Larry (RIP), I shortened the tabs on my magazines (the bottom part that contacts the mag release) to lower the magazine in the gun, so an empty shell held by the extractor now clears the rounds in the magazine.  It didn't take much, maybe 0.010 - 0.020".  This ensures the empty case hits the ejector properly and goes to the side, instead of hitting the next round in the magazine and going up.

Perform at your own risk, it's easier to remove metal than put it back on.  I used an extra-fine file, and it didn't take many swipes.  

I also cut my mount the way your are describing, because I really hate alibis.  After both modifications I went through a case of CCI Standard without any jams/alibis/misfires.

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Post by jareds06 5/21/2024, 7:45 pm

Toonces wrote:I had one instance of that with my new 208s in 1998.  As instructed by Larry (RIP), I shortened the tabs on my magazines (the bottom part that contacts the mag release) to lower the magazine in the gun, so an empty shell held by the extractor now clears the rounds in the magazine.  It didn't take much, maybe 0.010 - 0.020".  This ensures the empty case hits the ejector properly and goes to the side, instead of hitting the next round in the magazine and going up.

Perform at your own risk, it's easier to remove metal than put it back on.  I used an extra-fine file, and it didn't take many swipes.  

I also cut my mount the way your are describing, because I really hate alibis.  After both modifications I went through a case of CCI Standard without any jams/alibis/misfires.

I will give it a try! Thank you. Also yeah, alibis are the biggest scam in bullseye.

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Post by Toonces 5/21/2024, 8:46 pm

I took some pics to show what I did in 1998.  I hope this helps!

Here is an empty over a loaded round.  There should be zero movement of the case until it hits the ejector.  You will see a wiggle if it's hitting anything before the ejector.

Larry's Guns/Red Feather Hammerli Scope Mount Reliability issues 208_em12

This shows how close the magazine is to the bottom of the ejector.  It was pretty much touching before trimming the magazine tab.  There is maybe 0.020" of clearance.
Larry's Guns/Red Feather Hammerli Scope Mount Reliability issues 208_ma14

This shows the trimmed magazine tab.
Larry's Guns/Red Feather Hammerli Scope Mount Reliability issues 208_ma15

This shows my mount and ring after removing the material over the slide.
Larry's Guns/Red Feather Hammerli Scope Mount Reliability issues 208_mo12

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Post by jareds06 5/21/2024, 10:21 pm

Toonces wrote:I took some pics to show what I did in 1998.  I hope this helps!

Here is an empty over a loaded round.  There should be zero movement of the case until it hits the ejector.  You will see a wiggle if it's hitting anything before the ejector.

Larry's Guns/Red Feather Hammerli Scope Mount Reliability issues 208_em12

This shows how close the magazine is to the bottom of the ejector.  It was pretty much touching before trimming the magazine tab.  There is maybe 0.020" of clearance.
Larry's Guns/Red Feather Hammerli Scope Mount Reliability issues 208_ma14

This shows the trimmed magazine tab.
Larry's Guns/Red Feather Hammerli Scope Mount Reliability issues 208_ma15

This shows my mount and ring after removing the material over the slide.
Larry's Guns/Red Feather Hammerli Scope Mount Reliability issues 208_mo12
That's interesting, that may be exactly what's happening. Thanks for the pictures!
edit: ok just confirmed that is exactly what is happening with both hammerlis. Also looks like the previous owner attempted to grind down the left side of the feed lips on the set of magazines that came with one of the hammerlis. Going to take off material with a safe edge file from the little tab until the empty case stops binding up on the next round.

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Post by mbmshooter 5/22/2024, 8:07 pm

I have a Knapp mount on my Hammerli and it ends before the breech face.  I see that the LGC/Redfeather mount extends further rearward over the ejection port opening.  I suspect that additional length is causing the trapped cases.

I bought my Marvel conversion in 2001 and was also having similar issues.  While at Camp Perry I met Bob Marvel and described the problem.  He said, "cut that top rail flush with the breech face and polish it.  THAT ended the stovepipe/trapped brass issue completely!

After several hundred thousand rounds with various ammo I never again had that problem.

I suggest you consider modifying that mount accordingly.

Mike

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Post by jareds06 5/22/2024, 10:39 pm

mbmshooter wrote:I have a Knapp mount on my Hammerli and it ends before the breech face.  I see that the LGC/Redfeather mount extends further rearward over the ejection port opening.  I suspect that additional length is causing the trapped cases.

I bought my Marvel conversion in 2001 and was also having similar issues.  While at Camp Perry I met Bob Marvel and described the problem.  He said, "cut that top rail flush with the breech face and polish it.  THAT ended the stovepipe/trapped brass issue completely!

After several hundred thousand rounds with various ammo I never again had that problem.

I suggest you consider modifying that mount accordingly.

Mike
I tried getting one of the wilkins mounts but they went out of stock just before i went to purchase one unfortunately. I was going to cut the mount as my final option, going to see how modifying the mags works. so far testing with empties it looks good.

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Post by Ed Hall 5/23/2024, 10:32 am

If you look in the picture of the high riding magazine, you can see that the tip of the left rear lip is ahead of the ejector tab.  That's what is ejecting the case.  If you inspect that tip, you will find it is most likely even peened somewhat from the cases.  When you file the referenced tab, it is helpful to place the rear flat of the magazine against a support and file toward the support, to minimize the opportunity to bend the tab.  You can judge how much to remove by removing the recoil spring and cycling the slide slowly with a spent case.  As you bring the case rearward you can tell if it is hitting the lip or not.

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Post by Froneck 5/23/2024, 11:25 am

A friend of mine had the same problem described by the OP. Another shooter that had the same problem told him what stopped the issue in his 208. He did it with a file but purchased another mount from Red Feather and had me do it in my milling machine. I simply matched the angle of the lower area of the scope ring mounting form. I took enough off so that there was just enough material for the lower end of the scope ring to clamp on. By doing so that increased the opening so as to allow the empty case to eject.


Last edited by Froneck on 5/24/2024, 9:59 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Ed Hall 5/23/2024, 12:54 pm

When I removed the overhang from my mount, I must confess to just using a hacksaw.  Then I blackened it.

However, if the cases are ejecting off the magazine instead of the ejector, I consider that an equipment problem, even if it doesn't manifest in jams.

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Post by Foundryratjim 5/28/2024, 3:47 pm

I have purchased one of these for my Xesse . It is very nicely made. What is the proper way to remove it to clean the gun..meaning do you remove the four small countersunk screws or loosen the clamp on dovetail for the weight? When I unscrew the the 2 screws for the bottom dove tail I cannot slide it forward far enough for removal.

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Post by jareds06 5/28/2024, 4:18 pm

Foundryratjim wrote:I have purchased one of these for my Xesse . It is very nicely made. What is the proper way to remove it to clean the gun..meaning do you remove the four small countersunk screws or loosen the clamp on dovetail for the weight? When I unscrew the the 2 screws for the bottom dove tail I cannot slide it forward far enough for removal.
I just undo the two screws and slide it off the dovetail. Comes far enough forward on the H208

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Post by Foundryratjim 5/28/2024, 5:01 pm

There is grove for the front sight post on the underside of the rail that I think is not long enough for my sight post to clear.

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Post by Black_Talon 5/28/2024, 9:17 pm

Foundryratjim wrote:There is grove for the front sight post on the underside of the rail that I think is not long enough for my sight post to clear.

It'll come off but it's a close fit. You gotta kind of maneuver the mount around to clear the front sight.
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Post by Foundryratjim 5/29/2024, 12:12 pm

I used a file to remove some metal from the groove cut for the front sight. Works great now. Thanks

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Post by Danehogle 5/31/2024, 2:00 pm

First off guys, before you put anything on your gun, you should already know where the brass ejection ark goes. Making a mount that fits a gun model that stands decades is hard enough let alone the nuances of each individual firearm. There is nothing wrong with the red feather mounts. The gun has to be optimized with said mount for proper function.
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Post by Olde Pilot 5/31/2024, 2:58 pm

Do any Trailsides have grooved barrels?  Looking for a new X-esse, get the model (such as IPSIC) with the grooved barrel and all this goes away. Anybody tried milling groves for weaver mount in non-grooved barrel?

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Post by Danehogle 5/31/2024, 3:39 pm

Larry's Guns/Red Feather Hammerli Scope Mount Reliability issues Img_5411
Olde Pilot wrote:Do any Trailsides have grooved barrels?  Looking for a new X-esse, get the model (such as IPSIC) with the grooved barrel and all this goes away. Anybody tried milling groves for weaver mount in non-grooved barrel?
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