Nelson Conversion Kit

First topic message reminder :


(Photo updated July 23, 2019 with Baer lower)


After a lot of thought and browsing, I ordered a Nelson Conversion Kit several months ago, not expecting it to arrive until September, but it showed up several weeks ago.  I left it sitting in the box until I had some free time.

I installed it this afternoon on my Salyer Caspian, after watching a few videos of how these kits work.  Everything went so smoothly, I was amazed.  It's now on the gun, but I will wait until Monday to call the people at Nelson, and ask a few questions.

Anyone here have any advice or suggestions to get the most out of these kits?

One of the videos showed a fellow installing a Marvel conversion, and then he squeezed out what looks like Wilson grease all over the kit - it reminded me of dispensing ketchup onto a hamburger.  I'm sure that is wrong, but that leads to a question - is there a guide I haven't found yet that recommends what to do regarding lubrication?

Next, since it's a 22, I assume dry-firing is out unless I find some dummy rounds so the gun won't be damaged.  Is this correct?

Is CCI Standard Velocity ammo best for it?

I bought it with a rail, and I think a light-weight sight would be best for me, but my Aimpoint Micro has a Kodiak mount that won't fit onto the rail.  I think I'll buy the standard Aimpoint mount, which should work fine.  In the meantime, I mounted my Matchdot II (which I bought through this forum). Any recommendations for which sights work best?  I found a discussion about using it with an Aimpoint 9000sc.  I could put that on as well.  Is that overkill?

Not sure what I was expecting, but the Nelson Conversion Kit is just plain beautiful.  It looks well made, it seems to be easy to use, and it was effortless to install.  It's everything I expected, and a lot more.  I was on the phone for well over an hour discussing the kit with the people at Nelson before I bought it, and it seems to me it was worth the long wait.  I had looked at the other sources of conversion kits, and I kept coming back to the Nelson.  I guess my "test" of it, will be how it shoots for me compared to my Model 41.  One nice thing is it "feels" the same as the 45 Springfield I'm now using.  My hands go to the same positions, and the weight feels very similar, maybe a little heavier probably due to the sight (the 45 has an Ultradot L/T which feels like it weighs nothing...)

My next match is in two weeks.  I was planning on using my Model 41, but it had so many "issues" I was thinking of using a revolver.  I think I solved the issues, but if I get used to the Nelson, that's another option.

mustachio wrote:I don't want to sound unappreciative of the several good conversion units that are sold today, but I have a simple question.  Why, with all of the tested and proven designs of dedicated 22LR pistols that are on the market (Ruger MK series, S&W 41, Volquartsen, High Standard etc.) would you want to take a chance on an expensive conversion?  I have read many of the issues that go along with owning a conversion and don't know if I would want to spend my money on an item that may or may not function perfectly out of the box. I never had an issue with my Ruger MkII Government (with the standard or Volquartsen LLV-6 barrel, and I realize that the Volquartsen is somewhat of a conversion unit) or my model 41. Shooting a match and then having a gun related alibi is frustrating. Now, alibis with ammo, that is not necessarily the guns fault (good strike, but round not going off).

I too have a MkII with the Volquartzen treatment.  What .22EIC leg points and 100 point targets I have, have come thanks to it (and the hours I've spent behind it).

But my iron sight NMC PB is with a Marvel, a tool I've had less than 8 months.  Shue shoots and wins with a Marvel (and actually put this one together for its previous owner).  It is what I want in a .22, a .22 with scope, iron sight-integrated rail, on the 1911 frame that I shoot decently well.

I took the chance on it and found a new .22 EIC and 2700 gun.  Your mileage may vary of course, but it was worth the chance I took.

That said, I also don't feel the need to mess with it.  It has no beavertail so the frame eats my thumb, the GI safety wasn't my first choice, and the main spring is heavy.  A target pastie, a little training, and a dose of M.A.N. resolve all of these issues.

I would be disappointed if I expected a tool to work right out of the box and it didn't.  But knowing what little I know about 1911 frames, I would expect some massaging to be necessary to ensure perfect functionality after initial mate up.  This upper doesn't fit on my Springfield or Ed Brown frames, for example.  I'm glad it was fitted to a designated Caspian frame.

This also doesn't mean I still don't love my Ruger.

Jon Eulette wrote:

Dcforman wrote:Hey Mike! Don't file that trigger yet. On the Springfield, do you still have the ILS system? It's an internal locking system in the mainspring housing. If you have it, there's a small hole in the rear. The ILS system uses a very heavy mainspring, and can cause issues with conversions. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Dave

Correct. Remove stock spring and internals and replace with Colt style parts; 19# spring and standard mainspring cap and retaining pin.
Jon

So, what if I just replace the stock spring with a #19 Colt spring and not change any of the other internals?

My own Springfield doesn't have the ILS; the hole I noticed in it is standard, not for a lock.
I asked Dave Salyer, and my Caspian has a 20# mainspring.  

To 'KB3MBC', if I understand you correctly, why would you want to keep the ILS?  Why not just do as Jon suggested?  

To Jon - can you do this?
https://www.bullseyeforum.net/t2710-adjustable-trigger-weight-when-using-a-22-conversion-on-your-45-1911

KB2
The dimensions of the ILS components are different. You really need to replace the MSH cap and base, and pin. cheap components

Mike, that’s not legal for EIC, if interested

james r chapman wrote:KB2
The dimensions of the ILS components are different. You really need to replace the MSH cap and base, and pin. cheap components

Mike, that’s not legal for EIC, if interested

The RO no longer has an ILS so I doubt any official would know if any particular RO came with one or not.
- Dave

We’re talking about the extra screw hole

james r chapman wrote:We’re talking about the extra screw hole

got it, yea the CMP wouldn't like that, but when you think about it with almost all Euro guns you have the ability to quickly adjust trigger weight.
- Dave

dronning wrote:...........with almost all Euro guns you have the ability to quickly adjust trigger weight.

Confused - how do they accomplish that?  Or do you mean guns other than 1911's ?

They usually have a series of screws to adjust the various engagements & spring tensions.

KB2MBC wrote:

Jon Eulette wrote:

Dcforman wrote:Hey Mike! Don't file that trigger yet. On the Springfield, do you still have the ILS system? It's an internal locking system in the mainspring housing. If you have it, there's a small hole in the rear. The ILS system uses a very heavy mainspring, and can cause issues with conversions. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Dave

Correct. Remove stock spring and internals and replace with Colt style parts; 19# spring and standard mainspring cap and retaining pin.
Jon

So, what if I just replace the stock spring with a #19 Colt spring and not change any of the other internals?

You need new mainspring cap and mainspring retaining pin to go along with the 19# mainspring. Then your good to go!
Jon

Jon Eulette wrote:

KB2MBC wrote:

Jon Eulette wrote:

Dcforman wrote:Hey Mike! Don't file that trigger yet. On the Springfield, do you still have the ILS system? It's an internal locking system in the mainspring housing. If you have it, there's a small hole in the rear. The ILS system uses a very heavy mainspring, and can cause issues with conversions. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Dave

Correct. Remove stock spring and internals and replace with Colt style parts; 19# spring and standard mainspring cap and retaining pin.
Jon

So, what if I just replace the stock spring with a #19 Colt spring and not change any of the other internals?

You need new mainspring cap and mainspring retaining pin to go along with the 19# mainspring. Then your good to go!
Jon

When I did this with mine the hole was not cut properly for the retaining pin. Hopefully yours is

Jon, I found out that Dave Salyer used a 20# Colt mainspring.  As far as I know, he used the proper retaining pin, but when I got the kit of "Ed Brown 1911 Maintenance Parts" from Brownells, it included a new pin, which I used.   Is changing from 20# to 19# going to make much of a difference?

Mainspring is basically performing two functions in pur quest for 100% operational reliable conversion. It has cocking effort/resistance that slows down the slides cyclic rate and firing pin strike force. I've seen conversions run set up varioys ways. Most of us experienced guys just automatically use 19# mainspring because it works 99% of the time. Some guns will function both heavier and lighter springs. Several other factors contribute; recoil spring weight, ammunition and hammer manufacturer (hamner strut pin location/geometry. So there's no perfect rule per say. You have to just see if it works for you.
Jon

I decided to ditch the Colt lower and go with a RO. I installed a Nighthawk Custom mainspring housing with the mainspring kit purchased from Brownells. I switched out the #23 mainspring that came with the kit and installed a #19.
Took it to the range yesterday, loaded the first round using the “slingshot” method, squeezed the trigger and “click” nothing. Dropped the mag, 9 remaining so I pulled the hammer back and “BANG” followed by 9 more. Loaded the 2nd mag and using the same method, first shot “BANG” followed by 8 more. Last round went “click”. Recocked and it fired. After 4 mags I wasn’t able to get 10 consecutive rounds down range. Firing pin strikes looked pretty light so I decided to put the #23 mainspring in and give it a shot. I fired 60 rounds without a hiccup.
So, maybe I’m on to something here, only time will tell. My next task is to get the trigger down to about 3lbs or a tad less.

Shouldn't be a problem getting the trigger weight down. I ran mine at 2 lbs with a 23 lb mainspring for three or four years without any issues. I even had it down to 1.5 lbs for a short time just to see how it worked. (worked fine)

Earlier this year I brought it up to 3.75 lbs and a few weeks ago I switched to a 19 lb mainspring to check that out as it seems to be what many are using.

No light strikes yet...

I would like to leave an update for all my posts where I was struggling with rounds sticking in the chamber in my Nelson.  Lots of good advice was posted, and nothing worked for me.  After 20 or so rounds, the gun failed to fire, but pulling back the hammer and firing again worked.

About a week or so ago I shipped everything back to Nelson, so they could check it out.

With their ammunition, they had the same problems I have been experiencing with all my ammo - CCI, Eley, and Aguila.

As I requested, I asked for a replacement - I did not want to wait until the problem was sorted out, and eventually gotten back my kit, presumably working - as Larry told me he would do, if they weren't sure what the problem was, they would (and did) send me a replacement kit.  It's on the way, and will probably arrive tomorrow.

Kevin Nelson, Larry's son, suggested that there was probably something on the surface of the chamber, which would build up dirt as I used it until it finally got to where rounds wouldn't seat correctly.

Dave Salyer pointed out that when it didn't work, the first time I fired it, it just pushed the round in all the way, and when I fired a second time, it worked.


The Nelsons are so busy with so many orders I'm not sure when (or if) they would get around to sorting this out.  I very much appreciate what they told they would do if there were problems, replace it.  They obviously stand behind their products.

If I ever get feedback as to "what caused the problem", I'll post it here. I think Kevin's explanation is quite likely, and also some people have told me the tolerance on the chamber might have been a little tight.

I'm leaving for India shortly, so I may or may not get a chance to check it out before I leave.  That's what I intend to do, time and weather permitting.

mikemyers wrote:
From what I learned from Larry, the stock magazines are fine, and so are the GSG once I make the change.

Larry told me how he lubricates the Nelson kit - did all that an hour ago, and yes, it does feel smoother.  I mostly used Wilson grease, and thin oil where needed.

Mike, Can you share with us how Larry instructed you to lubricate your nelson kit?

AZSUNN wrote:Mike, Can you share with us how Larry instructed you to lubricate your nelson kit?

Sorry, I got so frustrated by the Nelson, I sent it back to them prior to my last trip to India.  I asked them to fix it, or replace it.  Kevin thought there was a problem with the chamber.  When time was running out, I called Larry and told him since they couldn't fix it, to please send me a replacement.  So, I've got an untouched Nelson kit in the other room.  I was going to get it going again, but got overly involved in my new High Standard guns, a refurbished Victor, and a brand new X-Series.

If I knew then, what I know now, I would have passed on the Nelson.  It's now an unfinished challenge, and I'd still like to get it going, and hopefully it will behave, but the monster all around me is keeping me locked up in my apartment.

I may be able to find my notes from Larry regarding magazine lubrication, but it's probably better for you to call him directly.  If you would prefer, I'll call him, ask him once more how he recommends lubricating the magazines, and post the information here.


Re-reading this thread is like reading a history book.  It all seems so long ago, but I started with the gun last July.  I haven't been to the range at all since early March, and now it's almost May.  I got a new case of CCI SV, and I could have the Nelson up and running in a day.