Camp Atterberry pistol range

First topic message reminder :

After reading and looking at the photos from Perry, I noticed that the 50yd line and the 25yd line were separate.
This meant collecting up your gear and future targets and hustling  over to the next stage.

I am wondering if Camp Atterberry will be setup the same. Anyone have a clue?

I can understand the reasoning in the Perry set up..It allows shooters to fire during different conditions, etc.

One of the things I appreciate about this forum is the very low level of emoji use.

CR10X wrote:Jim:

I've got to disagree a little with "The CMP knows how to run matches."  CMP President's, NIT, and NTT line callers did not have or follow the correct commands actually included in the CMP rules on my range on Sunday.  John and I had to point out the changes that needed to be made in the script to be correct. The line volunteers didn't have a clue about plugs or scoring. 

And if you happened to shoot on the "new" CMP metal frame turning targets on range 3, how did you like the 2 to 4 seconds of continued vibration after the targets turned?  The new turning mechanism needs some tuning and buffers. 

I'm sure they will get better, but its not a slam dunk for them either.  I'm also waiting to find out how the CMP will determine a classification system, assuming they will use one for a 2700 type match. 

...

CR

Cecil, 

You and Clark run some of the best matches in the country as do the people at Canton. And you bring up really good points. I too have an issue with the way that the rules are written for the EIC. But I will offer an example of NRA vs. CMP in regard to match operations. 

I realized at Andy's on 22 EIC day, that my score card was in my pocket rather than at CMP. I drove back to Perry at 17:30, knocked stridently on the door and apologized profusely about the mistake. The score was entered within 30 minutes. It didn't win anything but that is a different story. 

Let's compare and contrast that to NRA scores actually turned in but misplaced in the Stats office. When the shooter went to the NRA they were told that it was more than 90 minutes after the prelim results had been posted and though it was the fault of the Stats office, the scores would be ignored. There was no notice that the prelims had been posted however. That has happened multiple times in multiple disciplines in the past few years. In at least one case the rules committee overruled the decision. But in another the decision stood. 

If you or I were running a match and we made a mistake, we would correct it, without question. Then again we wouldn't explain that a match that can be entered multiple times with the highest score counting couldn't be a re-entry match because there was no limit on the number of entries. 

I want the NRA to get things straight. But I wanted that for High Power and Smallbore too. The attendance for each has dropped by more than 66% since they moved from Perry. Someone on here noted that they may not need 300 pistol and smallbore points at Atterbury, likely they are correct.

xman wrote:300 x 40inches is 1000 feet (40 inches is I think what to rules say per position)

add in line breaks every of 36 inches every 10 positions for shooters to score equals another 90 feet to the line.

Ads in qualified ROs every 25 positions, thats 12 ROs

My math might be incorrect but thats a lot of structures to build, turning system to develop and staff to train.

I am all for not having the shooters move, but practically outweights ideals.

A source told me they plan 3 shooters a table and the same (sized) tables used @ Perry. Current information is there will be  very little Commercial Row due to red tape. Junior employees for range setup, supply, and changes are nearly non existent due to labor law. This from a 29+ yr Perry employee and past rifle & pistol Perry shooter.
Ron Habegger

Does this person have an inside view of the planning NRA is doing? I expect the NRA to follow there own guidelines.

From the NRA Range Source Book 2004 section 3.01.3.2
Discipline                       Firing Position Width
Conventional Pistol            4 feet

It seems quite unsafe to cram three shooters into the Perry bench. That would be a very short distance from the .45 ejection port to the next shooter's face. And the box alone would take up all the table space for benching the gun and making it visibly safe.

Does this person have an inside view of the planning NRA is doing? I expect the NRA to follow there own guidelines.

From the NRA Range Source Book 2004 section 3.01.3.2
Discipline                       Firing Position Width
Conventional Pistol            4 feet
He learned what I quoted from his replacement. NRA from time to time has used rules or procedures  at Perry which we knew nothing of prior to the matches. The 1st year pistol optics appeared in large amounts refire procedure caused quite a disagreement on the line.           Ron    apologies for the "appearance" of this post, am having some kind of problem w/ computer response to commands.

Not sure what happened here. Were our posts run together. Msgs's written by ea of us are present but I'm ID's as the writer? Ron

Hmm. Doesn't really help me judge the accuracy of the info.

I know the NRA doesn't always follow it's own rules or guidelines. Sometimes it's necessary, sometimes it's just stupid. With the NRA my tendency is to believe the latter.

If they in fact cram us together that close I will not return. I suspect a lot more people will feel the same.

Sure, Ted, they’re “gearing up”. But statements were released including schedules. Where are they on the schedule that they published? The published schedule has about a month of buffer, IIRC, but where are they? Have they an approved design? Is the engineering been approved? How much delay do they foresee considering they have not broken ground as per their own schedule? Or do we get the Nationals at some other venue?

Meanwhile, at PERRY.

They should provide a regular progress update program from now to completion.  With pix.

Why wasn't the Cardinal Range the location chosen by NRA for moving the matches to? The people sent to set the ranges up at Atterbury told me after the initial yr the facility was almost completely inadequate and that local staff treated them as if they couldn't figure out why they were there, not expecting them to be around long.

A neighbor to Cardinal told me they hear a lot of shooting there and they were complimentary to it saying they stay their when Grand-children visit as there is a lot to do.

This all seems very ill advised or petty.

Ron Habegger

You would have to ask the NRA Ron...

Colt711 wrote:Why wasn't the Cardinal Range the location chosen by NRA for moving the matches to?

My guess, a wild guess, money. They can probably use Atterberry for half the cost of Cardinal. Not saying anything bad about Cardinal, what they would charge would probably be worth it. Just my opinion.

Mike38 wrote:

Colt711 wrote:Why wasn't the Cardinal Range the location chosen by NRA for moving the matches to?

My guess, a wild guess, money. They can probably use Atterberry for half the cost of Cardinal. Not saying anything bad about Cardinal, what they would charge would probably be worth it. Just my opinion.

Money may have been part of it but my guess would be the idea of holding all disciplines at one location was the driver, they could set up there for the month during all the matches.  Unfortunately Cardinal doesn't (currently) have the space for a High Power range
- Dave

I can tell you..... money was not it at all.

Has anyone seen or heard about any ground being broken at yet?

Can anyone give us an Atterberry update please?

Current Weatherbug update shows entire northern half of the state being pounded with heavy rains as of 1955 hrs Central Time on 11 Jan 2020!  Radar tracking indicates that the rain tracked south to north through the state. LOL

Atterbury base commander (who was involved with the original NRA arrangement/schedule that everyone is reading about): re-assigned last year. New management has asked for past NRA attendance figures, received them, and as one might expect, perhaps not impressed with the declining numbers for pistol, rifle, and smallbore? So he might be asking, what's in it for Atterbury? Interesting topic. One might also postulate that originally, the NRA expected the ING/IN taxpayers to foot the bill for range construction, since it was touted as an "*Indiana* Competition Shooting Sports HQ" (or something like that), AND because the NRA has too many other important expenses, other than competitions, and can't afford it. Rumor has it that no construction has started yet...but supposedly it only takes a few weeks to build a pistol/smallbore range. Well, rifle can go on as scheduled. Nothing to build...I just hope they free-up and counterbalance the sticky target carriers, spray the poison ivy in the pits, and mow the grass. Humping your 60# shooting cart 600 yards through tall rutted grass is tiring!

tovaert wrote:Atterbury base commander (who was involved with the original NRA arrangement/schedule that everyone is reading about): re-assigned last year. New management has asked for past NRA attendance figures, received them, and as one might expect, perhaps not impressed with the declining numbers for pistol, rifle, and smallbore? So he might be asking, what's in it for Atterbury? Interesting topic. One might also postulate that originally, the NRA expected the ING/IN taxpayers to foot the bill for range construction, since it was touted as an "*Indiana* Competition Shooting Sports HQ" (or something like that), AND because the NRA has too many other important expenses, other than competitions, and can't afford it. Rumor has it that no construction has started yet...but supposedly it only takes a few weeks to build a pistol/smallbore range. Well, rifle can go on as scheduled. Nothing to build...I just hope they free-up and counterbalance the sticky target carriers, spray the poison ivy in the pits, and mow the grass. Humping your 60# shooting cart 600 yards through tall rutted grass is tiring!

I just returned from the NRA Winter Board of Directors meeting.  The Director of General Operations talked up the Camp Atterbury initiatives (range construction and the 2020 Natl Championships for NRA's three Champs (Precision Pistol, High Power Rifle and Smallbore Rifle).  There was nothing mentioned about a change in plans, interest, construction, etc, to imply a change to the current 2020 NRA National Championships schedule.  Members of the Indiana State Rifle and Pistol Association were present and said they looked forward to supporting NRA and Indiana with the championships and new facilities.  

Questions above that ask why Pistol is not at Cardinal.  Simple...NRA and Indiana are partnering to bring all three National Championships to one location.  Conducting three national championships at three separate locations had a negative impact, both logistically and financially to the NRA, not to mention it was a challenge to NRA staff and volunteers.  NRA's home for all three championships was no longer Camp Perry.  For a number of reasons the CMP had established their presence at Camp Perry and wanted to grow their competitive shooting programs.  It became obvious to both the CMP and NRA that Camp Perry could not satisfy the competitive shooting plans and vision for both organizations.  NRA's competitive shooting programs/National Championships needed a new home.  At the 2019 NRA Annual meeting, the Gov of Indiana announced that Camp Atterbury would be the home to NRA's big three National Championships and have a museum to display NRA's competitive shooting trophies.  

As a long time Camp Perry competitor (1979 was my first), I, like many of you have ties to Camp Perry and memories that will not be replaced by Camp Atterbury.  Has construction begun on the Smallbore and Pistol ranges...not yet. Groundbreaking is scheduled to begin in the spring, with ranges completed and operational checks conducted in time to train volunteers and host the 2020 Natl Champs, beginning with Pistol.  The schedule of events for the championships was coordinated with CMP to allow competitors to shoot Pistol, Smallbore and High Power at both locations if desired.

NRA will begin putting out information this month (Jan) and updating.  I will continue to follow-up and provide updates as often as I can.  I am looking forward to either being a volunteer or competing in the first NRA National Pistol Championship to be held at Camp Atterbury.

Will there be accommodations onsite? If not, are there enough in the immediate area?

I saw some Motels 1 exit north

Ted, thanks for the update.

Do they have electronic targets?