New High Standard - What do you guys think about it?

First topic message reminder :

(If you wish skip through the first four paragraphs of my rambling on about my thoughts.........)

This thread is just sort of thinking out loud.  I've been posting several threads trying to improve my performance, and while they've all helped, I rarely do well at matches.  Maybe I should say I rarely do as well as I'd like to do.  Years ago, I shot my High Standard, and my Model 41.  The HS had problems which I now know are because the magazine that came with the gun had the spring in backwards, so the follower was pointing at the moon.  Back then, I didn't understand any of this stuff.  I also had my Model 41, which I've been shooting since the late 1970's.  I enjoyed it, although it developed its own "quirks".  Then I decided to keep my left hand in my pocket, and the world changed.

Again, mostly using the 41, things kept getting better, but slowly.  I read here "what to do", and tried, but I wasn't seeing the results I wanted.  So, I bought a Nelson kit, which is now off at Nelson having the barrel replaced.  I think the chamber was too tight, but I'll find out tomorrow when I call Larry Nelson.  Anyway, neither gun was doing what I wanted, meaning the likely culprit was ME.

So, I dug out my old High Standard, figured out how to correct the spring orientation in the magazine, and started using it.  Wow.  It was like a breath of fresh air.  My grouping and everything else improved, and there were no failures.  Fast forward to today - I took it to our club's "Old Shooter's Match", which is like Bullseye, but it's shot at 25 yards and then 15, not 50 and 25.  

Results for me were quite pleasing - I finished 9th out of 32, with a score of 863, and the only two "issues" were one when the round jammed against the top of the slide (alibi), and another when the gun fired but the round did nothing (another alibi).  As to the gun, it did all the things guns are supposed to do, if you learn how - it was easy to aim, and after firing it was easy to bring it right back on the target.  With my Aimpoint it's light enough for me to hold it steady, and with the grips I have on it now, it fits my hand perfectly.  It's a joy to shoot.  When I go to the range for practice, my groups are often pretty durn close to being in the 10-ring, which is now my goal.  It's easy to clean.  The only thing I struggle with is breaking the barrel loose so I can lift it off the frame - but it always comes off, eventually.   :-)




What all this is leading up to, is I was reading the thread here about the new High Standard guns that will start to be available very soon.  I called Alan Aronstein, and they'll be available with a rail, so I can use my red dot sight.  I started thinking I should buy one of them - my own High Standard was modified quite a bit - it's now in my Avatar.  Anyway, this got me to looking in the Rimfire forums, and reading that the old ones were fantastic guns, but people had to fiddle with them to get them to work properly.  I read this numerous times.
The post here:  (https://www.bullseyeforum.net/t13088-high-standard-texas-plant )

So, my question here, is whether this would be a good idea for me to get one, or a major pain getting it to operate properly.  You guys must know FAR more about it than I do.  Any advice or thoughts?

(I thought about Volquartsen, and others, but I keep coming back to High Standard.)

Here's a photo from their new website:

A few years ago when I was at a better point in shooting practice, I fired the 208s/dot  and the HS open sights about equal.  In fact both guns have done a 99 at 50y.  Having shot HS for so many years (since 1969) I kind of prefer them.  Fit, feel, weight, balance of the HS works real well for me.  Especially the slant grips.  And the HS trigger is perfect for me.  Until about year 2000 I never even heard of a 2 stage trigger or a roll trigger.  I remain old school.

Yep, the  old ones were touchy to get shooting well, but once you got them there they are pretty trouble free.  The old Marine Pistol Team Pistolsmith that worked on my guns loved HS.  When I first took my Victor to him, it would FTF, FTE and the trigger was so so.  He adjusted the mag lips, put new springs in everywhere and when I picked it up I was blown away with the trigger.  I asked him if he used the adjustment screw and he said, I used a stone like it should be done.   Anyway, I still shoot my Victor and love it.   We had a high master at our club that shot a Victor and was usually in the top 10 at Camp Perry in the civilian class in the 90's.  They do shoot in the right hands.  That said, I decided yesterday to add another 22 to my list and ordered a Nelson Conversion for my 1911.   I've always loved the way the 1911 fits my hand (like a glove) and look forward to trying it out when it arrives in 9-12 weeks (ouch).  Should be a nice Christmas present to myself.  If I like it, I'll look for a dedicated frame for it.  I'll never get rid of my Victor!

mikemyers wrote:

spursnguns wrote:..........My free advice to mikemyers....in another thread, it was recommended that you shoot the High Standard you own but you wanted to concentrate on other pistols.  Pick a pistol, which ever it may be, and stick with that one until your scores indicate otherwise.........

(Which leaves me feeling that I need to send the $$ to Alan, and get one of his new guns.)

Hello mikemyers,

That's an interesting conclusion.

In my youth, many many decades ago, I flitted from a Woodsman to a Mark I to a High Standard to a....until I settled on a Smith and Wesson M41.  My scores did not improve until the M41.  Was it a better pistol than some of the others?  Hell no.  My improvement came from me finally learning to shoot one of them correctly.

Good luck on your journey.

Jim

Now, if you could find an old Giles Hi Standard or Jim Clark, Sr. Hi Standard with the original magazines, then you'd really have something! I respect Jack, but unlike him, once I got used to the Hammerli 208s, my scores soared. I think my personal best was 885 with it. A framed target from the first 10 shots of a Frank J. Bickar Memorial Regional Pistol Match sits atop this desk. It is a "clean" I think I followed it up with a 98. The Hammerli has been 100% reliable and very accurate with a wide variety of decent .22 ammo.

Thanks; it's an interesting journey.

I can go back and forth between M-41 and my 1960's HS, and the HS gets a group at least one inch smaller than the 41.  My Nelson shoots like my 41.  I sent the Nelson back to Larry and Kevin because of malfunctions (with four different kinds of ammo, on three different frames).  Dave Salyer thinks my chamber is most likely too tight.  I'll get the Nelson back on Monday.  The 41 has a Clark barrel on it, because that got me the rail.  I tried it with the 7" barrel and optical sights

Someone here will most likely come up with a reasonable explanation.  Until then, I'll think of weight, and balance, and maybe the angle of the grip.  Maybe.

I got this today from my new Walther PPK/S - only 5 rounds, and only 15 yards, and it's with both hands, but it was still fun!!!
I think that's the main point - fun.     :-)

BE Mike wrote:Now, if you could find an old Giles Hi Standard or Jim Clark, Sr. Hi Standard with the original magazines, then you'd really have something! ..............

OK, back to being serious.  I wouldn't know where to look, and I doubt anyone who has one would be willing to sell it, and worst of all, I'm getting ready to go back to India for a while.

If someone reading this has one, and is willing to sell it, please send me a PM.        :-)    

Yeah, and Santa Claus is coming in a few months, too.


I doubt I'm good enough to really appreciate a gun like you describe other than in my dreams, but starting off with a brand new High Standard sounds very reasonable to me.

Please, no more gun options for Mike.



Jim

spursnguns wrote:Please, no more gun options for Mike.



Jim

AIRPISTOL!!!!

Yes, Air Pistol!!!
And Mike can shoot it in India - they have quite an accomplished national team! 

Yes.  Just carry it on the plane.  They won't care.

Jim

I have an old Hamden Trophy that I shoot league with .
Most of the HS guys all shoot CCI SV.
If your mags are correct they will feed CCI SV all day long.
I shoot league with mine, its great.
The new mags Alan is selling work great, I have 3 they are all perfect and required little or no adjustment.
There is a feeding ramp built into the frame of the HS, its not bad to polish it , I polished mine, you do it once , your done. It ain't about the ramp its about the mags.
If yours don't work get some of the new ones from Alan and be done with it.
I see guys at my club shooting those other pistols and they have problems too, lots of them.
Mostly user error but sometimes factory flaws.
A HS is a superior gun if you keep it clean, change springs as necessary and have the proper magazines , which at this moment , happily, are being made and sold by Alan.
So be happy.

Still in South India, really feel out of touch.

Just wondering - anyone here bought one of the new guns from Alan, presumably with the new magazines.  Did it "just work" ?

I shoot a 74 Victor.   I was having problems with feeding.  I bought a couple new magazines from Alan a few years ago and zero malfunctions since.   I was shooting European ammo.   Wolf, Eley or SK.     I bought a new LSI barrel and now shoot CCI SV with zero problems.  It will group 1" at 50 yards from a rest with me holding it.

All I can do is Hope the new guns are as good as the old ones.   If Alan is at the wheel, they will be good.  Not going to buy any new 22.  This old Victor does it for me.  
David

I've no experience with the new Hi Standards. I do have 3 of the old Hamden and Heatford Citations, 1 of them with an LSP lite barrel. It's one of those few guns that I can pick up and it feels great and the sights are aligned. None of them were fussy about ammo.

That being said when I was trying to decide between my Ruger MKII's and my Citations, I kept a detailed log for about 6-8 months. My x count was always 2-5 higher with the Citations but my overall score was always 4 or 5 points higher with the Rugers. The shots that went out with the Ruger were 8's, the ones that went out with the Citations were 4's or 5's.

I've tried a Walther GSP, S&W 41, Marvel & Nelson conversions. Currently running a couple of Nelson conversions and really like those, but once or twice a year I'll haul out a HI Standard just cuz I like em.
Allen

I have several old High Standard barrels that I have Ransom rested at 50yds.  All were "used" and most in great condition.  I say barrels because that is what counts. 

With few exceptions the barrels grouped less than 1.5" and the best ones were .75 or better with Eley.  More run of the mill ammo was not as good. 
I have also tested one of Alan's X Series barrels.  It grouped 5/8" with Eley.  And not quite as good with run of the mill.  Alans barrel was brand new at the time.

One old HS barrel was quite bad but did improve with a recrown. 
Another item was the best barrels had by appearance, concentric chambers to the bore.  And of course a comp did not help. 

Another note is one of my Giles HS guns that I have the test target by Giles.  The Giles target is quite good but the barrel now does not perform like that any more.  I wonder if a HS design barrel can be relined.  Or would the stud screw hole encroach on the boring out the barrel.  ????

Jack,
found an old post on the list, of guys relining. I'd check with one of them to see if the HS is a prospect.

https://www.bullseyeforum.net/t1448-barrel-relines-for-the-sw-model-41

Al

Hi Jack, I'm sure Mike won't mind if I hijack his thread. Did you ransom my Victor barrel? If you did how did it do?

Thanks
Len

LenV wrote:Hi Jack, I'm sure Mike won't mind if I hijack his thread. Did you ransom my Victor barrel? If you did how did it do?

Thanks
Len

Len
Is that the East Hartford barrel?  I don't have the actual record anymore. But it was good, one of the better ones.
8-9 inches for sure.

The club made me sell it. I had to sell it or pay for new target frames.    


                                XXXXXXXXXX

I supposed I deserved that with the poor pun. Yep East Hartford.

LenV wrote:I supposed I deserved that with the poor pun. Yep East Hartford.

Really it was very good.

I wanted to follow up also to see if anyone has bought one of the new HS?

Maybe most people who might be interested in buying the new HS either already have one, and love it, in which case they have no reason to buy another, or have one and hate it, in which case they also have no reason to buy another. 

I'll be back in a month, and decide then. As was noted here several times, I don't "need one" either.  There's a world of difference between "need" and "want".  I thought by now though, I'd have lots of feedback to read through, positive or negative.

I just took delivery of one 10 days ago, in addition I have an old E. Hartford Victor.  Only shot it twice but it worked great with CCI Std. the good ammo, not the questionable stuff that myself and others have had problems with.

The fit and finish of the new X-Series is miles better than either of the E. Hartford Victors I've owned.

I'm going to try a variety of ammo and see if there one it prefers.

Relevant reading:

https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11707309&posted=1#post11707309

I have a Hamden-made Victor I bought used in the early 80s and shot for about 8-10 years.  Back then I used Federal Champion (which was standard velocity then) with factory magazines.  Reliability not a problem.  Fast forward, I recently shot it with CCI standard velocity.  Reliability not a problem. 

I don't have access to a Ransom Rest, and my sandbag skills aren't reliable, so I don't have  a sense of what it will group (though certainly better than my skills).  In a very informal test, I shot the Victor with open sights about as well as my Buckmark with a red dot, which I attribute to the far, far better trigger on the Victor.