Can we talk grip?

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Can we talk grip?

Post by Magload on 4/22/2017, 3:06 pm

My main question is finger pressure.  Should it be equal on all fingers or more on the top two then the pinky?  I understand that the pinky can't squeeze as hard as the other two but it can squeeze hard enough to effect the grip.  Grip angle also changes when the top finger squeezes the hardest.  I know that grip is a big part of my problem and it is because I am not getting a consistent grip.  We talk about grabbing the gun like we were lifting from a holster or using the off hand to force it back into the right hand but pressure in different fingers is not mentioned.  You read grip hard but not so hard you squeeze the sap out of the wood or grip till you start to shake and just back off till your steady.  Too many variables for me.  Just give me what works and I will try to learn it but this experimenting is to slow and not working for me.  

BTW I use Altamont target grips, ortho grips I guess, and plan to put some clear skateboard taps in the finger groves and the right palm area as they are slick.  Don
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Re: Can we talk grip?

Post by orpheoet on 4/22/2017, 4:18 pm

My thumb and my pinky are just along for the ride. Little to no pressure. On the 1911 my thumb just sits on the safety. I'd say 90% or more of my grip pressure is middle finger and ring finger.
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Re: Can we talk grip?

Post by Sc0 on 4/22/2017, 6:05 pm

I use slabs, pinky and thumb apply no pressure..  Haven't a clue as to how to use orthopedic grips.  About the only variable is amount of pressure and where the heel of the grip is placed in the palm.

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Re: Can we talk grip?

Post by daflorc on 4/24/2017, 2:15 pm

Would love to learn more about proper grip. I always shoot better with orthopedics than with slab sides. Then again, that might also be because since switching to orthopedics, I spend most of my time shooting them...

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Re: Can we talk grip?

Post by Jack H on 4/24/2017, 6:17 pm

http://www.bullseyepistol.com/chapter1.htm

About halfway down this chapter.
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Re: Can we talk grip?

Post by Magload on 4/24/2017, 7:19 pm

Jack that about says it all.  I have read that manual a couple years ago but I was shooting two handed then and just kind of skimmed through it.  That is where I got the squeeze till you tremble then back off till you don't.  The grip and sight alignment thing works a lot better shooting irons then dots.  I do grip so my dot is centered in the tube but don't think that is as accurate as a front and rear sight in perfect alignment.  I have had not dot shooter want to look through my scope and ask me where the dot is. Their grip alignment is so bad the dot is not in the scope.  Thanks for reminding me of that manual again now that I am shooting BE it will help me a lot more then when shooting run and gun.  Don
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Re: Can we talk grip?

Post by TomH_pa on 4/25/2017, 8:29 am

What are the feeling about putting the thumb on top of the safety with some pressure?
Seems to help me keep from moving the gun sideways as I squeeze the trigger.
Any negatives to this?

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Re: Can we talk grip?

Post by orpheoet on 4/25/2017, 9:19 am

TomH_pa wrote:What are the feeling about putting the thumb on top of the safety with some pressure?
Seems to help me keep from moving the gun sideways as I squeeze the trigger.
Any negatives to this?
Personally I wish I'd never started with the thumb on the safety. I feel like I'll eventually have to change my grip. I don't recall seeing any Master/High Masters with such a grip. I could be wrong and hope I am.
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Re: Can we talk grip?

Post by Froneck on 4/25/2017, 10:39 am

Over the years of shooting I have purchased all kinds of grips. From the Herrett National adjustable to Rink and other Anatomical/Orthopedics for the .45 and .22. Did get them for CF guns but I only shoot the .45 for center fire for quite a while now. I only use the slab type as found on stock 1911s. Having the AW93 that came with Anatomic grips, thought Rink would be better but now shoot it with 1911 type grips that I made the adapter for. Finger pressure is best with the 3 fingers pushing on the front strap. I use only 2 fingers and my middle finger on the trigger as I cut off my first finger when a young boy. Only have about a 1" stub for a first finger. Most of the top shooters use the slab side on the .45 and most of the top AMU shooters have the Hammerli set-up with 1911 style grips.
 Always pick the gun up with the non shooting hand and place it in the shooting hand the same way every time. Never "milk" the grip, if it don't feel right grasp it with the non shooting hand and place it where it feels better.
 If you pulling the trigger and the gun is moving side ways your not pulling the trigger straight back! That's the negative! It will also add drag and make the pull weight feel higher and not smooth.

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Re: Can we talk grip?

Post by TomH_pa on 4/25/2017, 12:20 pm

"If you pulling the trigger and the gun is moving side ways your not pulling the trigger straight back! That's the negative! It will also add drag and make the pull weight feel higher and not smooth."

I wondered about that.... thank you

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Re: Can we talk grip?

Post by spursnguns on 4/25/2017, 12:44 pm

Greetings,

I believe that a lot of people "think" that their thumb and pinky apply no pressure when they grip their pistols but in reality, if those fingers/thumbs are touching the grip, they are applying some sort of pressure.

For me, no matter the pistol, my pinky applies light and consistent pressure.  With my M41 and its factory provided thumb rest....my thumb also has light and consistent pressure.  With my M1911, using slabs, that's a whole other story....I align my thumb on the grip screw (I'm old and that's how I was taught) and it applies medium/strong pressure.  I grip a M1911 like it wants to twist when it recoils it and because it does.

Works for me, so don't throw too many stones....just a few.

Jim
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Re: Can we talk grip?

Post by daflorc on 4/25/2017, 12:55 pm

Jack H wrote:http://www.bullseyepistol.com/chapter1.htm

About halfway down this chapter.
great article

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Re: Can we talk grip?

Post by Jon Eulette on 4/25/2017, 3:33 pm

When I was younger and stronger I gripped pistol with mostly just front strap and rear of frame gripping pressure and no thumb. It worked well for me. Now that I'm older and arthritic I've found that I have to use complete gripping pressure from entire hand and the thumb is absolutely required. I grip it firm and use lots of thumb pressure. Before I made the change I was 2 grouping. 2nd group was high at 1 o'clock from inconsistent thumb (at palm) pressure. It took me 6 months to get used to gripping this way after shooting the other way for so many years. I have not had one shot at 1 o'clock since I changed/perfected my grip. As we all know consistency is really the most important aspect.
Jon
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Re: Can we talk grip?

Post by Magload on 4/25/2017, 3:44 pm

I am working on the blank target lesson and getting two different groups might be my problem.  Going to switch back to slab grips tomorrow.  These Altamont target grips are really pretty but it is pretty groups I really need.  Don
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Re: Can we talk grip?

Post by rich.tullo on 5/3/2017, 6:46 am

Magload, Shark Skin Grips or Harretts Slabs are low-cost slabs and seem better then G10 IMHO.
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Re: Can we talk grip?

Post by Jack H on 5/3/2017, 11:13 am

Some time ago, I noticed a difference in grip comfort and results due to the 45 grip panel thickness.  Thinner panels work better for me.  A little bit thinner goes a long ways too.  I even like the feel of the frame with no panels.  I wonder if I can come up with a panel that is very thin. 

My knuckles are like 100mm wide, but the hand not real long
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Re: Can we talk grip?

Post by Jon Eulette on 5/3/2017, 12:03 pm

Jack you reminded me of something. In my opinion the smaller we can close our hand around the grip the better. Ortho grips typically open our hand more and we lose gripping strength and I think it's harder to grip consistently. The HS military grip is slightly smaller than the 1911. I found I could squeeze it better than the 1911. So I now take as much off the grip safety as possible to be able to close my hand more. I think it helps.
Jon
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Re: Can we talk grip?

Post by bdas on 5/3/2017, 12:56 pm

Jon Eulette wrote:Jack you reminded me of something. In my opinion the smaller we can close our hand around the grip the better. Ortho grips typically open our hand more and we lose gripping strength and I think it's harder to grip consistently. The HS military grip is slightly smaller than the 1911. I found I could squeeze it better than the 1911. So I now take as much off the grip safety as possible to be able to close my hand more. I think it helps.
Jon
I was at a bullseye clinic the other day (not Zins), and it was suggested that you should place your fingers on the front strap so that the "flats" of your fingers (the straight part between the 1st joint and 2nd joint) will face the target.  I have long hands and long fingers, so if I just wrap my hand around the grip of my 1911 (with slabs + spacers) the knuckles of my 2nd joints face the target.  It was suggested that, even if you need to hold the gun so that you're not touching the right side at all, you really want the flats of your fingers facing the target.  

I haven't had a chance to try it yet, so I don't have an opinion right now, but I suspect that part of the reasoning behind this idea is that it makes it easier to pull the trigger straight back, because it correctly positions the trigger finger (in the left-right dimension), relative to the bore axis.

Does anyone have any experience with trying this?  Any thoughts on it even if you haven't tried it?

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Re: Can we talk grip?

Post by Jon Eulette on 5/3/2017, 1:02 pm

First I get the grip that feels as natural as possible. Then I select a trigger length to get feel I want. So depending on my 1911 setup I actually shoot different trigger lengths. I squeeze them all differently. I basically figure out what it takes to make that particular pistol be as still as possible when the shot breaks. So I'm willing to adapt grip and finger position on trigger to shoot it the best. 
Jon
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Re: Can we talk grip?

Post by Magload on 5/3/2017, 2:25 pm

For the last week I have been using the VZ slabs that came on my LB on my Nelson.  I felt like it was giving me a better more consistent grip then the Altmont 1911 Target grips.  It did tighten the grip up some with less strays.  Well last night I put the target grips back on and went to the outdoor range to shoot the SL as there is a Club SL shoot Sunday.  My first string I kind of forgot going through all the steps on each shot just pulled up and squeeze off the shot when in the black.  It was 95 4X the best target I have ever shot.  I am normally in the low 70s.  Remembering that one should always quit on a good target I put the Nelson back in the box.  Only wanted to see if I had a good 25yd sighting with the CCI SV ammo.  Can't say I had the same results with the LB and the same grips.  Suprizing as I normally shoot it better then the Nelson.  Settings was off and made corrections and shot at 4 out of ten in the 10 ring.  Not saying where the other 6 went.  Then it was the 52-2's turn and we are not even going to talk about that set of targets.  I will say I fired 3Xs in a row after sight adjustment but the rest was all over the target.  So bad I got the rest out to just check the gun and got a X ring size group.  The grip on that gun sucks because of the right grip scope mount.  Don
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Re: Can we talk grip?

Post by rreid on 5/3/2017, 8:45 pm

Jack H wrote:Some time ago, I noticed a difference in grip comfort and results due to the 45 grip panel thickness.  Thinner panels work better for me.  A little bit thinner goes a long ways too.  I even like the feel of the frame with no panels.  I wonder if I can come up with a panel that is very thin. 

My knuckles are like 100mm wide, but the hand not real long
Maybe remove the grip bushings and wrap the frame with grip tape. I think I also remember seeing where Keefer made some extremely thin metal grip panels.
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Re: Can we talk grip?

Post by Magload on 5/3/2017, 9:11 pm

rreid wrote:
Jack H wrote:Some time ago, I noticed a difference in grip comfort and results due to the 45 grip panel thickness.  Thinner panels work better for me.  A little bit thinner goes a long ways too.  I even like the feel of the frame with no panels.  I wonder if I can come up with a panel that is very thin. 

My knuckles are like 100mm wide, but the hand not real long
Maybe remove the grip bushings and wrap the frame with grip tape. I think I also remember seeing where Keefer made some extremely thin metal grip panels.

Duct tape comes in some interesting color now days.  Add some skateboard tape in the right places you might just have what you need.  Really you could cut out skateboard tape using your grips as a pattern and put iy on the frame.  Don
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Re: Can we talk grip?

Post by bdas on 5/4/2017, 12:55 pm

rreid wrote:
Jack H wrote:Some time ago, I noticed a difference in grip comfort and results due to the 45 grip panel thickness.  Thinner panels work better for me.  A little bit thinner goes a long ways too.  I even like the feel of the frame with no panels.  I wonder if I can come up with a panel that is very thin. 

My knuckles are like 100mm wide, but the hand not real long
Maybe remove the grip bushings and wrap the frame with grip tape. I think I also remember seeing where Keefer made some extremely thin metal grip panels.
CMM makes metal grip spacers (http://www.cm-machine.com/1911-Stock-Spacers_c_11.html).  I suppose if you put grip tape on those, it would be pretty thin, and still do worthwhile things like keep dirt out of the magwell and help protect your hand from a kaboom.  Might need to add a washer to hold them in place with the grips screws, though (or find a screw that would go directly into the frame instead of the bushing). I would think that, for any super-thin grip solution, the problem would be that the grip screws would stick out and be uncomfortable (even with the shorter "slim line" bushings and grip screws).

Maybe fill a slim-line bushing with JB Weld with a slot across the middle so you can still get a screwdriver into the bushing for removal/installation.  You would still need a thin washer to hold the spacer, though, because it's intentionally drilled to fit around the bushing. Or maybe call CMM and see if you can get a set of spacers with smaller holes (or no holes, and then drill them yourself) so the bushing alone will hold it. Could even add some JB Weld to the outside top of the bushing to make it smoother on your hand.


Last edited by bdas on 5/4/2017, 1:14 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Added idea about filling a slim-line bushing with JB Weld to make it a screw)

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