Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead

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Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead

Post by wizzer on Tue Dec 26, 2017 9:47 am

First topic message reminder :

I will be purchasing several custom expanders.  Assuming .452" lead bullets and new brass, should we be using a .450 or .451 diameter expander?  Maybe .452 on work hardened brass?

Edit--not talking flaring of case mouth, EXPANDER for inside case diameter.


Last edited by wizzer on Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:41 am; edited 2 times in total

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Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead

Post by SmokinNJokin on Fri Dec 29, 2017 5:10 pm

I use a .452 expander (the .45 colt version) on my hornady LNL with NO flare at all, I have not seen a single sliver of lead in many thousands of 200 LSWC loaded. Jacketed are slightly loose, work fine I just have to be careful not to push them down into the case too deep before crimping. Taking Jerry's advice, I could probably chuck my expander die up on a drill and remove a little bit of the nose portion so that brass provides support from possible setback. Never noticed an issue with jacketed and .472" straight (no crimp) but who knows whats happening in the gun.

Based on that, I would think a .453" or larger expander would require you to very carefully measure with jacketed rounds and adjust depth to make sure rounds can't 'fall in' during loading or be set back by recoil or chambering.


Last edited by SmokinNJokin on Fri Dec 29, 2017 5:22 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Had a few too many, needed some clarity on the syntax)

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Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead

Post by Aprilian on Fri Dec 29, 2017 6:00 pm

My own testing concluded that using less than a .453 expander sized the entire body of a swaged .452 bullet.  I use a Noe .453 expander and the completed round passes a push test without changing its diameter.  The bullet finger-pushes into the expanded case to the lube band, the rest of the distance is tensioning the bullet.

For jacketed and plated .451 bullets, I use the .451 Noe expander.

This works for me, but as others (with more experience than me) have pointed out, reloading .45 ACP is a forgiving round.
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Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead

Post by Gary Wells on Fri Dec 29, 2017 6:52 pm

Stan: The reason that I was ask9ng about threads is that I have the Lyman "M" style expander and it is threaded to insert into the die, which is also threaded, and on the shaft, mine is .475 dia. probably for the dia. to clear the minor dia. of the thread.
I will get you the dias. of the Lyman "M" style expander, and I will probably get the hell beat out of me for saying this, but I was not happy with mine. The pitch dia of the  mating threads. For med there was too much clearance between the mating threads and the slop had to be deleted by the "lockdown" nut, which when the ass'y was viewed at upside down the shaft was not concentric visually to the ID of the die body. best wishes of luck with yours.

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Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead

Post by Gary Wells on Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:23 pm

Stan:
The Lyman "M" style expander plug measures .457-.458 caliper check & .452 caliper check for the final step that goes into the bullet.The machining is better than what one would expect for for a set of reloading dies excepting the concentricity issue previously mentioned. I believe that the threads in the locknut are not co-axial with the expander plug or more than likely the sides of the locknut are not perpendicular to the locknut threads.

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Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead

Post by Bullseye_Stan on Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:00 am

Thanks for the dimensions Gary.  The Lee through powder expanders are hardened, since my M2 tool steel lathe bit only puts a bit of a polish on one.  I've ordered a tool post holder for my Proxxon grinder (which appears to be lost in the Amazon Prime system) and will try that eventually.  If all else fails, I'll anneal one in my Artisan 688 oven, machine it, then heat treat again.  I'd prefer to just buy one.  Uniquetek makes a through powder expander for the Dillon (which is planned for the future), but it seems I may need to call or email to clarify exactly what they are selling: http://www.uniquetek.com/product/T1582


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Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead

Post by Dr.Don on Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:32 am

Toolpost grinders are a pain in the neck. Just take apiece of drill rod and make one from scratch. I make all my own Dillon expanders that way.
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Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead

Post by Gary Wells on Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:37 am

My thoughts on the Lyman "M" style expander set-up:
The expander portion of the plug is a 2 piece design. the expander tip is about 3/4" long and screws into the plug body, making it easy for one to make a expander tip to any dia they wanted. The thread concentric issue could probably be reduced or eliminated with a few wraps of "teflon" tape and running the expznder die into the case before locking down the locknut. Also seems to work well as a inspection plug for case dia.


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Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead

Post by jglenn21 on Sun Dec 31, 2017 2:17 pm

if any one is looking to get a NOE expander they have a 20% off sale today and Monday



code is "a641ebe4"
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Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead

Post by blindshooter on Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:13 pm

Blsi2600 wrote:The NOE 456/452 is the correct setup for Zero swaged bullets.  Works great on my 1050.
What station do you have it in? I load a lot of 185 Zero's and just changed my 1050 from 9mm to .45acp I don't use a bullet feeder.
Thanks

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Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead

Post by james r chapman on Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:40 pm

Went back and checked my expander diameter. It's .4565/.450, it allows the cast bullet to slide to just below the grease ring. When seating, the .450 grips the base ring of the bullet and the case is crimped to .465
I like it, I'm sticking with it...

Cool
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Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead

Post by JayhawkNavy02 on Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:09 pm

Steve Bathje makes seating inserts for Dillon. The cost is $30.00 each With shipping and he will combine shipping.  The expander, which goes into the powder measure die opens the case up 5 - 6 thousands, or about 1/16 of an inch to avoid swaging the bullet.  You can order via eBay, but he doesn't always have his products on there so I tend to email him directly.    Photo from Steve showing the Dillon factory with a LSWC and his on the right.

I also use his seating insert, which is much more consistent since the shoulder vice nose is used and with Zero, who has the same profile for the 200 LSWC and 185gr LWCHP I don't have to adjust the seating die.  Steve's insert is made of 303 stainless and is on the left, Dillon factory on the right in the second photo below.



You can reach him via email at: sbathj3@yahoo.com


Or his RRPMI eBay Store: https://www.ebay.com/sch/rrpmi/m.html







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Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead

Post by blindshooter on Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:02 pm

JayhawkNavy02 wrote:Steve Bathje makes seating inserts for Dillon. The cost is $30.00 each With shipping and he will combine shipping.  The expander, which goes into the powder measure die opens the case up 5 - 6 thousands, or about 1/16 of an inch to avoid swaging the bullet.  You can order via eBay, but he doesn't always have his products on there so I tend to email him directly.    Photo from Steve showing the Dillon factory with a LSWC and his on the right.

I also use his seating insert, which is much more consistent since the shoulder vice nose is used and with Zero, who has the same profile for the 200 LSWC and 185gr LWCHP I don't have to adjust the seating die.  Steve's insert is made of 303 stainless and is on the left, Dillon factory on the right in the second photo below.



You can reach him via email at: sbathj3@yahoo.com


Or his RRPMI eBay Store: https://www.ebay.com/sch/rrpmi/m.html









I ordered both from Steve. I couldn't figure out the size of the Uniquetek and wanted the seater for dillon as its so easy to clean it out compared to my modified Lee seater. I think it will work better than the stock Dillon expander.

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Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead

Post by Multiracer on Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:42 pm

Dr.Don wrote:Toolpost grinders are a pain in the neck. Just take apiece of drill rod and make one from scratch. I make all my own Dillon expanders that way.



Is this an offer to make a few for the membership here ?

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Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead

Post by Multiracer on Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:45 pm

JayhawkNavy02 wrote:Steve Bathje makes seating inserts for Dillon. The cost is $30.00 each With shipping and he will combine shipping.  The expander, which goes into the powder measure die opens the case up 5 - 6 thousands, or about 1/16 of an inch to avoid swaging the bullet.  You can order via eBay, but he doesn't always have his products on there so I tend to email him directly.    Photo from Steve showing the Dillon factory with a LSWC and his on the right.

I also use his seating insert, which is much more consistent since the shoulder vice nose is used and with Zero, who has the same profile for the 200 LSWC and 185gr LWCHP I don't have to adjust the seating die.  Steve's insert is made of 303 stainless and is on the left, Dillon factory on the right in the second photo below.



You can reach him via email at: sbathj3@yahoo.com


Or his RRPMI eBay Store: https://www.ebay.com/sch/rrpmi/m.html











This is the stuff I now use as well, the guy makes a fine product.

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Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead

Post by Sc0 on Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:59 pm

Steve has the .452 expander listed on Ebay. Just ordered that and other stuff, any leads on a .360 expander for a Dillon powder die?

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Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead

Post by JayhawkNavy02 on Sat Jan 06, 2018 6:23 pm

Have you tried emailing Steve directly?  He makes a 38 as well


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Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead

Post by robert84010 on Sat Jan 06, 2018 6:25 pm

Sc0 wrote:Steve has the .452 expander listed on Ebay.  Just ordered that and other stuff, any leads on a .360 expander for a Dillon powder die?  
Ask Steve. He didn't advertise one for .38 special but he made me one when I asked and gave him the dimensions I wanted.

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Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead

Post by Dr.Don on Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:14 pm

Multiracer wrote:
Dr.Don wrote:Toolpost grinders are a pain in the neck. Just take apiece of drill rod and make one from scratch. I make all my own Dillon expanders that way.



Is this an offer to make a few  for the membership here ?
Nope, not an offer.  Just a suggestion to a guy who obviously had the equipment to do it himself.  I don't do commercial work.
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Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead

Post by Multiracer on Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:18 pm


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Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead

Post by Gary Wells on Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:15 pm

james r chapman wrote:Went back and checked my expander diameter. It's .4565/.450, it allows the cast bullet to slide to just below the grease ring. When seating, the .450 grips the base ring of the bullet and the case is crimped to .465
I like it, I'm sticking with it...

Cool
james:
Is that Steve's standard sizing for the expander he generally sells on fleabay or was that a special order sizing

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Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead

Post by james r chapman on Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:19 pm

Gary, that's what I machined it too..
for cast bullets.
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Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead

Post by Gary Wells on Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:30 pm

James:
I want a Dillon "M" style funnel powder drop at .4560-.4565 by .452. I have the PPRMI one on my 5560b now but don't know what size it is.

Bls2000:
Many thanks for the info. I also reload the Magnus swaged HP.

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Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead

Post by Bullseye_Stan on Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:05 pm

I finally got around to getting my proxxon tool post holder and ground on one of the Lee through powder inserts as mentioned earlier in this thread.  Here is what the final case looks like with a bullet inserted when a 0.450 expander with a 0.457 (tapered) step is used:

I'll give this a try and see how it goes.  I still think the shoulder seating insert from rrmpi @ Ebay makes more of a difference than the step expansion on the brass since it squares up the bullet with respect to the brass holder.

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Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead

Post by Multiracer on Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:18 pm

I still think the shoulder seating insert from rrmpi @ Ebay makes more of a difference than the step expansion on the brass since it squares up the bullet with respect to the brass holder.

Bullseye_Stan

Both pieces compliment each other and make our lives so much easier. Less mistakes is more time on the range.
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Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead

Post by Gary Wells on Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:54 pm

I have them both and love both. I will probably be looking for a new Dillon "M" style powder funnel expander in the near future cut to Dr. Don's specifications.

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Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead

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