Bullseye-L Forum
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

ratio of front and rear sights

+8
shootingsight
Mike M.
chopper
r_zerr
SteveT
john bickar
Chris Miceli
jmdavis
12 posters

Go down

ratio of front and rear sights Empty ratio of front and rear sights

Post by jmdavis 10/29/2018, 9:43 am

I have always been told that for a normal 1911 a ratio of front sight width to rear notch with of 1:1 worked best. But I can't find a source for this. I know that my ball gun started life with a .134 front and a .115 rear. I had the rear opened to .125 and it is better (at Perry it is good even in Overcast conditions). I am thinking about opening the rear up to .134 or .135. Do any of the gunsmiths or older iron sight shooters (I'm 54 now, soon to be 55), think that's a bad idea?

I recently bought an Advantage Arms target conversion and those sights worked great in the same conditions that were a problem with the Service pistol. There is definitely more whitespace with the conversion slight more  than 1:2:1 sight ratio vs. well less than 1:2:1 with the ball gun. 

Thanks for any thoughts. 

Mike
jmdavis
jmdavis

Posts : 1409
Join date : 2012-03-23
Location : Virginia

Back to top Go down

ratio of front and rear sights Empty Re: ratio of front and rear sights

Post by Chris Miceli 10/29/2018, 9:50 am

i like a wide front sight with a rear sight notch that allows for a healthy amount of white spacing. I can't shoot a really tight white set of irons. I think the brain likes to see the amount of white on each side of the front sigh equal to how much you hold under the bull. Well my brain does....and its crazy!

Some will say finer white is more accurate, not sure if thats true or not. if all things are equal it will be an X.

Chris Miceli

Posts : 2715
Join date : 2015-10-27
Location : Northern Virginia

Back to top Go down

ratio of front and rear sights Empty Re: ratio of front and rear sights

Post by jmdavis 10/29/2018, 9:54 am

Hey Chris, 

In good light with no cover, it works ok. But I noticed at Durham that there were times that it was just too Narrow. 

I too like the same amount on each side as the amount under the bull. My thought is that explains the easier time I had with the AA Conversion. It's rear is wider.
jmdavis
jmdavis

Posts : 1409
Join date : 2012-03-23
Location : Virginia

Back to top Go down

ratio of front and rear sights Empty Re: ratio of front and rear sights

Post by john bickar 10/29/2018, 10:29 am

Womp it out. More white space should allow you to accept your arc of movement better and have better trigger control.

"should"
john bickar
john bickar

Posts : 2159
Join date : 2011-07-09
Age : 100
Location : Menlo Park, CA

RoyDean likes this post

Back to top Go down

ratio of front and rear sights Empty Re: ratio of front and rear sights

Post by SteveT 10/29/2018, 1:12 pm

Rules of thumb will get you close, but will not be perfect for anyone. The correct size of front and rear sights will primarily depend on your arm length, sight radius, eyesight, lighting and hold stability. It might also depend on the size and appearance of your target and probably a few other things I haven't thought about.

Every factory sights I've held has too narrow a notch for me.
SteveT
SteveT

Posts : 1061
Join date : 2011-06-10
Location : Illinois

https://sites.google.com/site/sdturner/shooting

kc.crawford.7 likes this post

Back to top Go down

ratio of front and rear sights Empty Re: ratio of front and rear sights

Post by r_zerr 12/22/2022, 12:42 pm

John,
thanks for the links. I womped it out.
Scatt told me what I needed to see, which is the size of the hold ( approximately 50 yd 10 ring) and the repeatability of my sight alignment ( changing/moving).
The wider rear notch now allows full unobstructed view of the front and now I can see when the sights were not aligned, which previously was covered up.

r_zerr

Posts : 175
Join date : 2014-12-15
Location : Tucson, AZ

john bickar likes this post

Back to top Go down

ratio of front and rear sights Empty Re: ratio of front and rear sights

Post by chopper 12/22/2022, 8:08 pm

I've heard that some people say to deepen the notch too. Is the reason for deepening the rear sight notch to get a better focus on the front sight?
 Stan

chopper

Posts : 798
Join date : 2013-10-29
Age : 72
Location : Western Iowa

Back to top Go down

ratio of front and rear sights Empty Re: ratio of front and rear sights

Post by Mike M. 12/23/2022, 6:23 pm

Odd that I just posted on this sort of subject...:-)

The Soviet sports establishment did a lot of studies, and concluded that a light-front sight-light ratio of 1:2:1 was the best place to start.  Yes, you fine-tune from there, but American sights are made for young eyes...and the American firearms industry is too pig-ignorant to figure out that a wider rear sight notch would do a world of good at negligible increase in price.

Mike M.

Posts : 69
Join date : 2011-07-18
Location : Deep Southern Maryland

Sa-tevp and RoyDean like this post

Back to top Go down

ratio of front and rear sights Empty Re: ratio of front and rear sights

Post by shootingsight 1/6/2023, 4:32 pm

I've been working on this as well, but assuming the ideal setup is a front sight as wide as the bull, and a rear sight 150% as wide, which would give a 1:4:1 ratio.  I'll see if I can make adjustable plates for the rear to try 1:2:1, 1:3:1, and 1:4:1.

shootingsight

Posts : 117
Join date : 2019-06-27

Back to top Go down

ratio of front and rear sights Empty Re: ratio of front and rear sights

Post by RodJ 1/6/2023, 5:13 pm

Is a Swiss file with a safe edge the way to womp? It seemed slow going when I tried to widen my rear.

RodJ

Posts : 845
Join date : 2021-06-26
Location : TX

Back to top Go down

ratio of front and rear sights Empty Re: ratio of front and rear sights

Post by RoyDean 1/6/2023, 10:29 pm

This subject is close to my heart. My eyesight is far from perfect. I really struggle with iron sights. But I am now totally spoiled by the wonderful adjustable width rear sights on Pardini's (and other Euro guns). Together with about a +0.5 corrective lens to get the front sight in sharp focus plus grey or green tint (thank you Brenda S) to hide the floaters. Taken me about 3 years to arrive at that combination!

I have tried the JB "Womp", but I am not very skilled with a safe edge needle file and the results have not been great on typical USA made rear sights. I've got someone working on a Euro upgrade to a USA rear sight - watch this space!

RoyDean

Posts : 815
Join date : 2021-03-31
Age : 68
Location : Oregon

Back to top Go down

ratio of front and rear sights Empty Re: ratio of front and rear sights

Post by JHHolliday 1/7/2023, 8:57 am

RodJ wrote:Is a Swiss file with a safe edge the way to womp?  It seemed slow going when I tried to widen my rear.

Posted to another thread a couple of weeks ago on widening rear notch on H208 and SW 41:

I used a diamond abrasive plate from the portable knife sharpener made by Worksharp.  The plates can be removed and the edges have no abrasive:

https://i.postimg.cc/jj8f0ZFb/20221224-141122.jpg

Here is the widened 208 sight notch:

https://i.postimg.cc/zBVgJKsR/20221224-140650.jpg

Here is the same on my SW 41:

https://i.postimg.cc/C58n8YLh/20221224-140905.jpg

This cold bluing (blacking actually) seems to work better than black marker to treat the bare metal surfaces:

https://i.postimg.cc/cH2866Wk/20221224-140657.jpg
JHHolliday
JHHolliday

Posts : 197
Join date : 2022-12-15

RodJ likes this post

Back to top Go down

ratio of front and rear sights Empty Re: ratio of front and rear sights

Post by Jack H 1/7/2023, 12:21 pm

chopper wrote:I've heard that some people say to deepen the notch too. Is the reason for deepening the rear sight notch to get a better focus on the front sight?
 Stan

I prefer the deeper notch that gives a better view of the front sight.
High Standard deepened the rear notch in the 60s with their 106 models.  The rear sight blade was made taller to accomplish this. 
For Ruger, Kensights are deeper than Volquartsen
Roddy silvered a taller blade onto an LPA sight for my M9 ball gun. 
In each case, the front sight appears more square than a sideways rectangle
Jack H
Jack H

Posts : 2651
Join date : 2011-06-10
Age : 74
Location : Oregon

chopper likes this post

Back to top Go down

ratio of front and rear sights Empty Re: ratio of front and rear sights

Post by shootingsight 1/7/2023, 12:30 pm

Doug White explained to me that the Russians (?) actually experimented with a V shaped rear sight, so the white on each side of the blade was a triangle.  You could better judge if the sight was centered, because one triangle would be taller than the other.  Interesting concept, I'll see if I can make some custom rear sight blades to experiment with.

shootingsight

Posts : 117
Join date : 2019-06-27

Back to top Go down

ratio of front and rear sights Empty Re: ratio of front and rear sights

Post by RodJ 1/7/2023, 2:15 pm

JHHoliday - thank you!

RodJ

Posts : 845
Join date : 2021-06-26
Location : TX

Back to top Go down

ratio of front and rear sights Empty Re: ratio of front and rear sights

Post by shootingsight 1/7/2023, 5:01 pm

RoyDean wrote:This subject is close to my heart. My eyesight is far from perfect. I really struggle with iron sights. But I am now totally spoiled by the wonderful adjustable width rear sights on Pardini's (and other Euro guns). Together with about a +0.5 corrective lens to get the front sight in sharp focus plus grey or green tint (thank you Brenda S) to hide the floaters. Taken me about 3 years to arrive at that combination!

I have tried the JB "Womp", but I am not very skilled with a safe edge needle file and the results have not been great on typical USA made rear sights. I've got someone working on a Euro upgrade to a USA rear sight - watch this space!
Roy,

Thanks - in the years I have been doing lenses, the only colors that I found justification for were pale yellow, to filter out UV light, and pink/vermilion to filter our green light and increase contrast, if you are hunting or otherwise shooting against a foliage background.  So learning that green helps hide floaters new makes 3 colors that are justified.

Art

shootingsight

Posts : 117
Join date : 2019-06-27

Back to top Go down

ratio of front and rear sights Empty Re: ratio of front and rear sights

Post by chopper 1/7/2023, 8:20 pm

Thank you Jack, I widened and deepened my Victor's rear sight with a chainsaw file 5/32" I think. It opened just what I needed for the side space. I then deepened it a little more, for me a round bottom makes no difference. I can see the front sight better and that's what counts. I did the same on my model 14. 
 To Mike the OP do what you have to do to make it easier to acquire sight alignment and remember to soot them black, leave no shiny edges.
Stan

chopper

Posts : 798
Join date : 2013-10-29
Age : 72
Location : Western Iowa

Back to top Go down

ratio of front and rear sights Empty Re: ratio of front and rear sights

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum