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Post by PhotoEscape on 7/23/2020, 9:41 pm

I came to realization that Arched housing provides me personally with ability to better grasp and operate pistols.  I have easier time centering and recovering.  Still I feel that centering 6" barreled 22 LR Kart conversion is less natural then centering 5" barreled 45 ACP.  Both pistols have Aimpoint 9000SC dots.  With that I have couple of questions. 

1. Can anyone share experience and opinion on using arched housings versus flat?
2. Are there arched housings of different sizes?

Thank you,
AP
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Post by CR10X on 7/24/2020, 5:37 am

As we change in age and strength (from just general improvement, deterioration Smile , or repetition) it is a good idea to try something different once in a while.  I've been back and forth a couple of times between arched and flat.  I have a couple already set up with same mainsprings, etc. to swap out but its been a few years now with flat.

Don't know about different sizes, but some 1911's will "feel" better with arched and some with flat and I think that's mostly minute differences in trigger lengths between guns more than anything else.  Whatever gets your trigger finger consistent (placement and operation) and the grip safety depressed fully, and a consistent grip throughout the shot is what you should go with.

By the the way, I found that 6 inch Karts handled better for me the with a optic shroud AND a lighter dot like 1 inch UltraDot or Aimpoint Micro.  My 5 inch Kart with Optic shroud and MatchDot Ultra Dot is very balanced for me.  

The 6 inch Karts with the steel shroud are a little heavier toward the muzzle than other conversions so be sure to get your second finger well up under the trigger guard as much as you can.

CR

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Post by Axehandle on 7/24/2020, 6:25 am

I run the Wilson "V" mainspring housing in my 1911s.  There was always that void at the heel of my hand with the flat housings.  Of course I run the standard arched housing in my EIC gun.
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Post by kc.crawford.7 on 7/24/2020, 7:00 am

Not all receivers are created the same either.  That can have a BIG factor in how the mainspring housing fits and therefore how it feels in your hand.  I believe for the most part all arched housings are pretty much the same.  But there are so many different receivers that feel different kinda hard to pin that one down.
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Post by PhotoEscape on 7/24/2020, 8:26 am

Thank you all!

I ordered couple housings from WC to try, - appreciate info Axehandle!

Cecil, as always, appreciate the wisdom, and will try lighter dot on Kart.  However..... watch your email Smile 

Be safe,
AP
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Post by JKR on 7/24/2020, 8:35 am

Alex,
I switched to an arched housing some time ago. I found it felt a little big so I cut it down about half way, reshaped it nicely, and stippled it heavily. There’s plenty of material on an arched housing to play with.
Jim

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Post by PhotoEscape on 7/24/2020, 8:59 am

Thank you, Jim!
I'll keep that in mind! 

Side question to you and all, - are you using 19# spring or something heavier?

AP
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Post by Al on 7/24/2020, 9:15 am

JKR wrote:Alex,
I switched to an arched housing some time ago. I found it felt a little big so I cut it down about half way, reshaped it nicely, and stippled it heavily. There’s plenty of material on an arched housing to play with.
Jim
Great minds Jim.
I did the same quite a while back. Flat just didn't feel right and arched seemed to push my hand away from the grip safety too far. I tapered the bottom but left the middle arched. I was going for the right balance of feel and having the sights aligned when I raised the pistol. Got the right feel after ruining 1 or 2. Then checkered and duplicated on my spare wad gun & hardball. Haven't done the Nelson conversions yet. They've both got flat MSH. Was planning on picking up a couple at Perry this year and modifying them.  We all know how that turned out.
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Post by dronning on 7/24/2020, 9:27 am

For me arched "felt" much better but my scores dropped.  I gave it a while to see if my scores improved but nope??   Went back to flat and my scores went right back up.  It was suggested I give it another try but with a shorter trigger.
- Dave
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Post by JKR on 7/24/2020, 9:42 am

PhotoEscape wrote:Thank you, Jim!
I'll keep that in mind! 

Side question to you and all, - are you using 19# spring or something heavier?

AP
Alex,
You need to find the right balance between the recoil spring and mainspring. This will depend on the individual gun and ammo. 
No experience with Kart but usually 8/18 on a conversion and 12/20 on a wad gun is a fair guess. It can vary.
Jim

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Post by Aprilian on 7/24/2020, 11:08 am

dronning wrote:For me arched "felt" much better but my scores dropped.  I gave it a while to see if my scores improved but nope??   Went back to flat and my scores went right back up.  It was suggested I give it another try but with a shorter trigger.
- Dave
At a clinic last year, Zins said that he loved the feeling of an arched, but he shot better scores with a flat MSH.
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Post by heavyop7 on 7/25/2020, 9:13 pm

CR10X I have a Kart 6 in. that I would like to mount a 1 inch Ultradot. is there a mount that installs where the rib is attached with 2 screws.....can you tell me what mounting options I have

Thanks, 
Tony

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Post by PhotoEscape on 7/25/2020, 9:40 pm

heavyop7 wrote:CR10X I have a Kart 6 in. that I would like to mount a 1 inch Ultradot. is there a mount that installs where the rib is attached with 2 screws.....can you tell me what mounting options I have

Thanks, 
Tony
Tony,

Please re-read Cecil's post.  He mentions "optic shroud".  This is what you must have in order to mount a dot.  My Kart came with two shrouds, one with iron sights, and another one machined with rail for installing optic.

AP
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Post by CR10X on 7/26/2020, 6:30 am

Tony, the only options for the factory Kart shroud is to get someone to mill the shroud for you for a weaver / picatinny mount or drill and tap for some type of scope mount.  And the rib on top of the factory shroud makes for an not very elegant looking set up unless done well. The only other option is to find an optic shroud made for the Kart. A 6 inch optic shroud is like finding a unicorn.  Finding a 5 inch optic shroud is like finding a unicorn that's also a genie that can grant your every shooting wish.   

There was at least one gentleman that make optic shrouds for Karts.  I do not know if he is still in business or not but the delivery was about a year and a half about 10 years ago.  Very nice guy and the product was very well made and a great solution, but apparently he just did a few now and then.  

Kart stuff is sometimes hard to come by.  For example I found a good example 6 inch that for some reason was missing the rear sight.  Took me over 15 years to find a Kart Adjustable Rear Sight.     

So, long story short, the easiest way is to take your Kart to a really good gunsmith and see what he can do.  On the other hand, milling a Kart is kinda like putting mannequin arms on Venus de Milo to me.  It just doesn't seem right but it that's what it takes to get the job done and makes the owner happy, then more power to them. 

If you want something else to look around to play with, look for a Day Arms .22 Conversion that was made by Bob Day of Texas.  Interesting piece with a "spring" to hold the slide stop (no screw in, just slide on the conversion) and a clip that engages the front of the dust cover.  But the most interesting part are the magazines.  They are inserts that are pressed into a standard .45 magazine and engage a small part of the magazine catch slot to stay in place.  They hold five rounds. A truly interesting solution! I found a pristine one on E-Bay that looks like its never been mounted and 2 magazine inserts. 

CR

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Post by heavyop7 on 7/26/2020, 7:10 pm

PhotoEscape and CR10X, thank you both for your help. I am fairly new to Kart Arms. The shroud is the complete upper slide minus barrel and rib/sights correct? I'm not sure what you mean by shroud. You have lower receiver and upper slide. Is the shroud a 3rd item?

I have a good friend who is a fantastic machinist and works on guns. If you can tell me the exact shroud maybe he can make one for me. 

The rib with the sights attached to it with 2 Hex screws can that be removed and have a mount installed in there (narrow of course) in place of it then maybe use 1 inch .22 cal. rings that are used on grooved .22 cal. rifle receivers? Really want to try and keep the Kart all original. Fred Kart built it on a new Colt receiver. Its a great shooter and would compliment my .45 Wadgun. Currently I only shoot the Kart for .22 EIC matches. but thinking how nice it would be with a dot on it.

Funny you mention Bob Day, I have a book on him building a .45 Wadgun. Wish I was around in those days. I have a few excellent Kart magazines but GSG magazines work very well in Karts.

I appreciate any help in this endeavor.

Tony

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Post by CR10X on 7/26/2020, 7:18 pm

There is no removing the "rib", those screws hold the barrel in the shroud that also has the slide captured as well. The upper is three major parts; shroud, barrel and slide; and a number of smaller parts, guide / assembly rod, etc.

CR

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Post by PhotoEscape on 7/26/2020, 7:28 pm

Here is illustration for Cecil's post.Main Spring Housing Img_4811
Main Spring Housing Img_4810
I'm about to remove Comp XD (pretty much same as 9000SC after I added rear thread adapter and UD's extension tube), and install H1 Micro, as suggested by Cecil.

AP
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Post by heavyop7 on 7/26/2020, 7:42 pm

Oh wow did not know that, well this is very educational. Seems like a time consuming job to fabricate a shroud then. Or try to find a shroud which sounds near impossible.

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Post by CR10X on 7/27/2020, 6:00 am

I believe that Dave Salyer was once shooting a Kart conversion, without the shroud and with some type of scope mount installed directly to the barrel.  Not sure, could have been a heavily modified Hammerli (he worked on mounting scopes on those too) but I would contact Dave for further information or denial  Smile.  I could be remembering wrong!  

CR

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Post by heavyop7 on 7/27/2020, 12:41 pm

Dave built me 2 excellent .45 wadguns. I will contact him. Thanks for your help CR,

Tony

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