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Hammerli X-Esse Long misfiring

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jglenn21
Ciaran
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Post by Ciaran Wed Sep 06, 2023 9:17 am

Hi,
I’m a bullseye shooter from Ireland. I’ve owned a Hammerli X-esse long slide since 2005 and fired many rounds through it without pretty much a single malfunction until now.
The pistol is the non-barrel liner type made by Hammerli not Carl Walter.  
It started a few weeks back with hearing a little click after the slide returned into battery from firing a shot, it felt like the trigger bar was dragging and then setting (it only happened occasionally). But, the pistol would fire when I pulled the trigger so I didn’t take much notice of it.
Within the last week or so it has started to misfire bigtime. It happens like this:
1.       Load first round, pull the trigger and the gun fires (all normal).
2.       Second round picks up, is chambered and the slide goes into battery but won’t fire. Upon inspection of the round it has a very light firing pin strike and the hammer is off cock.
3.       Rack the slide and release the slide (it’s re-cocking the hammer as it’s off cock), pull the trigger gun will fire but the whole process repeats again (back to stage 2 again).
4.       Last round will hold open after firing when the mag is empty (as normal)
I checked operation with the slide off, hammer cocked and depressing the trigger (frame is protected), it de-cocks ok. I keep my finger on the trigger and try to cock the hammer again but the sear won’t catch the hammer and it just de-cocks.
This gun is clean and well maintained, it gets fed SK red and Eley Match
The trigger is custom made, aluminium (adjustable first stage travel, first stage pull and trigger over travel) and it has a 2742106 second stage pressure piece fitted in the frame (same one as in the sport, adjustable type not ball) but this has been the pistols setup used for the last 18 years.
I backed off my trigger over travel stop and reset it (tuned so gun would not fire and then backed it off a turn leaving minimal over travel after firing, this is the way it has always been set) but it’s still malfunctioning.
The only visible wear I see in the gun is the centre mating under surface of the slide is wearing through the slides Stinox® coating when it moves across the hammer. It is relatively smooth though and I think they all wear there. (I think it’s hardened there also the bearing surface won’t wear out sliding across the hammer)
After the fault started I fully degreased the hammer assembly in place and blew it all out with a compressed air line, minimally re-greased and lubed the firearm but the fault is constant.
Is there a known fault that matches this description?
Cheers,
Ciaran

Ciaran

Posts : 11
Join date : 2023-09-06
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Post by jglenn21 Wed Sep 06, 2023 5:56 pm

1st  thing is to change your recoil and mainspring if they haven't been charged lately. Check the trigger bar to insure you have around .010 clearance between the sear arm and the bar hook.
Also be sure it's working correctly to reset the trigger. Its.spring has to be solid against.the bar
No joy then pull the hammer and sear to inspect them
jglenn21
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Post by Ciaran Thu Sep 07, 2023 9:13 am

Hi jglenn21,
To my shame the springs are all original, I'll change them. As for the 0.10 clearance are you talking about here?
Hammerli X-Esse Long misfiring Maxres11
Cheers,
Ciaran

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Post by jglenn21 Thu Sep 07, 2023 6:39 pm

That's it no less than .010.
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Post by -TT- Tue Sep 12, 2023 1:22 pm

This issue sounds like it could be a weak or failed sear spring. It's a bit tricky to drive out the sear pivot to access it, and then get everything back together. Check that the sear is rotating freely first, it could just be buildup interfering with its engagement at the end of the reset swing (where it picks up the hammer). Relubricating the sear requires a special moly grease so don't go hosing things down unless you're prepared.

Is that photo taken of your pistol? Because if anything, that gap looks too wide, which will not cause the issue you're describing. Narrow gap, which will, is to be avoided.

[edit - part #5]
Hammerli X-Esse Long misfiring X-esse10
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Post by Ciaran Tue Sep 12, 2023 2:55 pm

Hi TT,
I just bought €310 of parts (a few doubles in there too)
Since last talking I fully stripped the pistol to the frame, no obvious wear. Degreased, relubed and reassembled.
I thought I had it sussed, turns out I'd changed ammo batch. I was up shooting last Friday and blipped off a box of sk red with no issue. Loaded up from a new box and the problems started again. I was getting burns more than usual and a higher than normal amount of residue coming from the pistol....epiphany....it's just a bad batch of ammo, yae!!
I was on the range again today, I rooted out a couple of boxes of eley match (tail end of 10k batch)
I've put about 5k of that batch through this pistol without a hiccup in the past. Same problem today using it.
So, I'll wait for the parts. I'll start with the recoil spring and mainspring first as suggested and go from there. I'll report back when she's running well again.
You mention special grease, I just tend to use mil-com TW25B grease and oil. I've been using it for years on my revolver cylinder and action to keep it running well. What is the recommended special moly grease you mentioned, could you post a link to it?
I've a 1/2 pint of moly grease in the shed but I doubt that's what you're talking about. Would you just use grease this for the sear mating surfaces?
Cheers,
Ciaran

Ciaran

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Post by -TT- Tue Sep 12, 2023 4:21 pm

Ciaran wrote:You mention special grease, I just tend to use mil-com TW25B grease and oil. I've been using it for years on my revolver cylinder and action to keep it running well. What is the recommended special moly grease you mentioned, could you post a link to it?

The sear surface in the X-esse (and the earlier Swiss 208/215/etc) is specially surfaced and requires a straight-moly treatment, i.e no additives such as grease, oil or graphite. It's pretty important to the trigger feel, and critical for wear. You only need to lubricate it once, the stuff stays put indefinitely, but if washed or contaminated it's important to thoroughly clean and reapply.

Larry Carter used to sell this, which is the only product he'd allow: https://www.neconos.com/item/MOLY-SLIDE-33

I'm shocked that SK ammo would cause this problem, but you mention "red box". Does that mean you are using SK Rifle Match? The slower-burning rifle powder will not work well in a pistol, especially one as sensitive as the X-esse. I run SK Pistol Match in mine, all day every day.
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Post by Sc0 Thu Oct 05, 2023 7:10 pm

Had a similar problem, was thinking it was many causes... thumb web making contact with the slide under recoil, dirty chamber, sear to hammer contact under recoil, slide stop contact, even deburred the firing pin as it was mushrooming against the retaining roll pin....

Ended up being a bad lot of ammo... same ammo that occasionally keyholed at 25 and 50yds.

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Post by rburk Thu Oct 05, 2023 11:47 pm

What brand was the bad lot of ammo?   Keyholing with 22 ammo, I have not experienced that yet.

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Post by Sc0 Fri Oct 06, 2023 12:36 am

An old case of Norma Tac-22,

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Post by Ciaran Fri Oct 06, 2023 2:36 am

Before all my problems started I was short on ammo and ended up getting RWS rifle match.
I found it very punchy in the pistol, seemed to have more power than normal. I was shooting at 25 meters and when I went to score one of the rounds had keyholed. The group was rubbish. I just put it down to a bad day.
I then tried it in the following:
10/22 competition series (one of the new lefties) found it punchy in this too, harder action cycling if you know what I mean.
Sako Quad HB, this is a fine shooter.
NULA model 10 (really accurate rifle)

Nope, all results were crap, groups were inch to inch and a quarter. This stuff just didn't shoot for me.

I am now wondering if the extra power is what stuffed my old springs. 

Still waiting on all my parts.

Lube as recomended by walther (exact text as sent):
 
for sears: LiquiMoly, Guntec Waffenfett (Part No. 24392)

for general: Walther MultiCare Universal Spray (Item No. 3.2069)

for defense: Interflon Lube TF

Ciaran

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Post by Jon Eulette Fri Oct 06, 2023 2:58 am

For the heck of it check and see if the extractor is pushing slide out of battery after chambering cartridge.  Basically look from the side and see if there is a gap between slide and barrel. When it does you don't get a solid firing pin strike.
Jon
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Post by rich.tullo Thu Oct 12, 2023 1:52 pm

Mine hate Norma , check the firing pin.
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Post by Ciaran Thu Oct 12, 2023 2:09 pm

Had it out looks grand. Compared it to a new spare and the overall lenght was the same. No deformation visible. I had stripped the gun down to the frame. Everything looked grand.
I didn't use the new grease yet. Thanks to -TT- for pointing out that special grease was required.
I was on a Range Safety Officers course and was using the pistol, all went well. But it was only 20 or so shots.
When I get the new parts I'm just going to change the recoil and hammer spring, relube to spec and see what happens. As I mentioned earlier I bought all the internal bits and bobs so if it doesn't work I just keep changing things till she goes back to 100% reliable.


Ciaran

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Post by Ciaran Tue Oct 17, 2023 2:22 pm

Hammerli X-Esse Long misfiring 20231017
Hammerli X-Esse Long misfiring 20231015
Parts on their way!
The devil drives idle hands, made a holster for the wife in the downtime. I'm a leftie so she needed her own.

Ciaran

Posts : 11
Join date : 2023-09-06
Location : Ireland

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Post by Ciaran Tue Oct 31, 2023 2:23 pm

I was just finishing up the rig for my wife and noticed the magazine holders I put together for myself might be unique. Its good to share so if anybodys interested in how they are put together I'll post the process. No big deal and about 50 dollars to make the pair

Hammerli X-Esse Long misfiring 20231022Hammerli X-Esse Long misfiring 20231021

Ciaran

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Post by Ciaran Wed Nov 01, 2023 4:27 am

Hi Wobbley,
I've attached a PDF of the build for you and anybody else who's interested.
Cheers,
Ciaran
Attachments
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Mag build.pdf You don't have permission to download attachments.(1.3 Mb) Downloaded 15 times

Ciaran

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Post by Ciaran Wed Nov 15, 2023 12:18 pm

I got around to fitting parts, I decided to go with the 2742886 Recoil Spring first and a bit of the moly grease. Brought it up to the range and 60 rounds fired without an issue. So, I'm going to stop there until and shoot it a bit more to be sure it's fixed. I took note of the spring lengths (new & old) as this might be useful to someone if they start to have a similar problem.
The old spring was a fair bit shorter than the new spring
Hammerli X-Esse Long misfiring Edited10
Hammerli X-Esse Long misfiring Edited11

Ciaran

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