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Sig P210 for EIC?

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ArmyTherapist
JNW1
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LSM 124
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Sig P210 for EIC? Empty Sig P210 for EIC?

Post by orpheoet Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:43 pm

So I bought one of these new American P210's and am curious what everyone thinks about using it for EIC. Are there any 210 knowledgable folks on the forum? Sig claims 3.5 lb trigger so I'll have to bring it up to 4. It seems from the pics I've seen that they are somewhat faithful to the design but I'll update when I receive the pistol next week.
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Post by Jon Eulette Sat Nov 04, 2017 2:37 am

I say go for it. I've heard they shoot pretty good. Get your last 8 points!
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Post by Saladman Sat Nov 04, 2017 7:44 pm

I think you have to increase trigger weight to 4 lbs and get different (non palm swell) grips.

Tangentially related, when you take the slide off, how tightly does the barrel fit into the slide?

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Post by john bickar Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:30 pm

Do whatever you gotta do to get onto the "big team" for Ohio Laughing

PS: I'm not sure I could make that team anymore! Laughing You are all hard holders!
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Post by orpheoet Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:37 pm

I saw a Sig rep on Youtube talking about how they brought the price down by using the usual Sig barrel lockup instead of the Browning style. So it seems it might not be such a good idea.....
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Post by LSM 124 Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:17 pm

Let is know more about how you like this pistol after you receive it.  Is it drilled and tapped?I am considering one myself, but at my age, almost any new gun must easily mount a red dot for my eyes are not real keen on iron sights anymore!

Thanks,
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Post by orpheoet Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:41 am

LSM 124 wrote:Let is know more about how you like this pistol after you receive it.  Is it drilled and tapped?I am considering one myself, but at my age, almost any new gun must easily mount a red dot for my eyes are not real keen on iron sights anymore!

Thanks,
lsm 124
I cancelled the order when I found out they changed the design. I'm a little irked that nowhere in the description of the gun on Sig's website do they mention changing a design feature that from my understanding was a major reason for its legendary accuracy. I very much doubt it's optic ready.
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Post by Slartybartfast Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:23 am

Interesting, went looking for pictures and found short and long slides and one that has a fixed barrel (image below). Would this version improve accuracy?
Then on the SigSauer site, there's only one model. Guess the new version doesn't have these options then. Unfortunate.

Sig P210 for EIC? Cg33UsT
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Post by xdarrows Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:39 pm

Has anyone discovered a reliable means of adjusting the trigger weight up to the required 4 pounds?

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Post by JayhawkNavy02 Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:20 pm

orpheoet wrote:I saw a Sig rep on Youtube talking about how they brought the price down by using the usual Sig barrel lockup instead of the Browning style. So it seems it might not be such a good idea.....

And....lots of free MIM parts....

I'm also naming my next 80's hair metal cover band Druckpunktplatten
Sig P210 for EIC? 396187_640
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Post by Amati Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:44 pm

orpheoet wrote:I cancelled the order when I found out they changed the design. I'm a little irked that nowhere in the description of the gun on Sig's website do they mention changing a design feature that from my understanding was a major reason for its legendary accuracy. I very much doubt it's optic ready.

Your decision speaks to the maturity of this Forum while elsewhere the SIG fans are gushing all over it.

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Post by xdarrows Fri Mar 16, 2018 2:42 am

Amati wrote:
orpheoet wrote:I cancelled the order when I found out they changed the design. I'm a little irked that nowhere in the description of the gun on Sig's website do they mention changing a design feature that from my understanding was a major reason for its legendary accuracy. I very much doubt it's optic ready.

Your decision speaks to the maturity of this Forum while elsewhere the SIG fans are gushing all over it.

As the owner of a Swiss P210-6, I've handled quite a few of the German-made P210s and have found them to match the originals ... though there are those purists who doubt any changes from previous designs could be an improvement.

Based on a pretty thorough review of the so-called gushing, I expect that the American-made P210s will turn in more accuracy that most BE shooters will ever be able to realize.

The key question, given that the triggers remain superb across all P210 variants, is how to reliably increase the weight to 4 pounds without having to file at protrusions of the Druckpunktplatte. There are three springs which influence trigger pull, and having a selection of extra-strength springs would be very useful.

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Post by JayhawkNavy02 Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:38 am

Ixdarrows wrote:
As the owner of a Swiss P210-6, I've handled quite a few of the German-made P210s and have found them to match the originals ... though there are those purists who doubt any changes from previous designs could be an improvement.

Based on a pretty thorough review of the so-called gushing, I expect that the American-made P210s will turn in more accuracy that most BE shooters will ever be able to realize.

The key question, given that the triggers remain superb across all P210 variants, is how to reliably increase the weight to 4 pounds without having to file at protrusions of the Druckpunktplatte. There are three springs which influence trigger pull, and having a selection of extra-strength springs would be very useful.

I’ll politely disagree.  

I would worry you get a 2” inch 25m gun.  That probably won’t  hold the 10 ring at 50 yds.   You will drop points with a 4+ inch gun over a pistol that can hold the X-ring.  Most of us would notice.  I would argue even lowly sharpshooters/experts would notice.   That’s awful accuracy.  Not a glowing review by a dealer (hyperlink) below, who is seeing a larger sample size than most.

If I had a 2” test target at 25m like the review here I would pass.  My worst 1911 has a 1.2” 10 Shot 50 yard group and my best is around 1.0” with 10 shots.  Both in 45 ACP which is easy enough to load that even I can do it.

http://www.westcoastarmory.com/reviews/review/104/

I think it’s safe to say if the test target fired at 1/2 the distance has the same Extreme Spread Value for the group fired at twice the range that the “improvements” probably aren’t for the better.
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Post by Amati Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:10 am

For those who must have them,  the good ones can be found for under $4K. 

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/756037518

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Post by daflorc Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:43 pm

Sig P210 for EIC? Screen14

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Post by xdarrows Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:27 am

Amati wrote:For those who must have them,  the good ones can be found for under $4K. 

That's a German-made gun from Eckernförde ... not usually considered one of "the good ones" ... not at least in comparison to the Swiss guns.

Based on the empirical data, though, I'd say that they all are good enough for CMP EIC competition or iron-sighted BE/NRA Precision.

Just need to get the trigger weight up!

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Post by Saladman Sat Mar 17, 2018 2:24 pm

I showed how you can increase trigger weight.  Also the guns are listed as being approved for CMP matches as it is underlined under current rules.  The underline if I'm not mistaken means "newly added/changed."

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Post by xdarrows Sat Apr 07, 2018 8:45 am

Saladman wrote:I showed how you can increase trigger weight.  Also the guns are listed as being approved for CMP matches as it is underlined under current rules.  The underline if I'm not mistaken means "newly added/changed."

Tightening up the mainspring, is mechanically, the last thing you would want to do.

AFAIK, there are three springs and one mechanical interface which dictate trigger pull weight (in addition to shortening the factory mainspring). There is a German shop which supplies P210 trigger spring tuning kit, but the proprietor has indicated that his set only lightens the trigger pull.

Here is a discussion of the five options:

1. Stoning the engagement surfaces is the indicated solution, but unless you have non-MIM parts and a skilled & knowledgdable gunsmith, this isn't realistic (you'll ruin your gun).

2. Next up is changing out the trigger spring (assuming the P210 American has one), would be the next choice, increasing the 1st stage pull weight.

3. Changing out what I believe in English would be the sear spring (Feder zur Fangklinke) would be next.

4. The mainspring itself could be increased in weight, but this would add undesirably pressure to the sear, greatly increasing the friction on the sear contact surfaces as a means of achieving minimal increases in trigger pull.

5. Without a replacement MS, one could (as described by Saladman) twist the mainspring nut and over-compress the mainspring (achieving increased tension on the MS, accompanied by decreased compression space). I attempted this with my P210-6 (which has a 2.5lb trigger) and was able to increase trigger pull to 3.0lb before the the MS lost enough space to function, however, cycling action was negatively impacted and I returned the MS nut to its original position.

For further background information on the P210, I recommend the extensive writings of Larvatus Prodeo. Here is a LINK to his article on P210 Trigger Function.


Last edited by xdarrows on Sat Apr 07, 2018 8:58 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Added hyperlink)

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Post by Saladman Sat Apr 07, 2018 4:52 pm

Ah interesting, I will have to do some reading.  I don't think I've even shot this gun with the increased mainspring trigger weight.  My gun doesn't seem to run out of room or even close to it due to the way the spring is configured.  I would think the main downside to doing this would be reduce sear life.

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Post by JayhawkNavy02 Sat Apr 07, 2018 5:02 pm

I
xdarrows wrote:
For further background information on the P210, I recommend the extensive writings of Larvatus Prodeo. Here is a LINK to his article on P210 Trigger Function.

Be careful with Mr. Prodeo's information.  The full range from superb to absolute garbage.  He loves to self quote/reference.  Unfortunately, a lot of good information is in doubt because of the lack of precision in truth/fact.  I'm not saying discount/disregard everything, but be careful.


Last edited by JayhawkNavy02 on Tue Jul 28, 2020 6:17 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Post by lyman1903 Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:54 pm

here is a good read on the new, German, and Swiss 210

http://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/430601935/m/4320043434
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Post by xdarrows Sat Apr 21, 2018 1:43 am

So, I had a SIG gunsmith here in Germany change out the trigger spring and sear spring on my P210-6 with what he had on-hand.

I loaned him my newly-purchased official NRA trigger weight set, and he got me a pull just over 4-1/4 pounds just by changing these two springs.

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Post by GBDavisJr Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:43 am

Saladman wrote:I think you have to increase trigger weight to 4 lbs and get different (non palm swell) grips.

Tangentially related, when you take the slide off, how tightly does the barrel fit into the slide?

Karl Nill can likely take care of your grip needs. I use them on P210, P9S SC, P210A, Model 41, P220 SAO Supermatch

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Post by tovaert Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:12 pm

Hi...new forum member here. On my P210 Target (made in NH), I removed the trigger and hammer assembly (BTW, very easy to do, but don't lose the tiny little trigger pin retaining spring). I measured the first stage trigger pull with the stock trigger spring installed (using a weight set) at right around 1.5#. My overall pull weight is about 2.75# (lighter than Sig advertised). So my second stage (sear + mainspring) are at about 1.25#. I measured the stock trigger spring and its spring rate is about 13#/in. This was also verified using simple spring rate equations, assuming a music wire spring (it's magnetic). So to get the trigger up to ~4.25# total, I'm going to increase the trigger spring rate to 26#/in +/- and that should bring my first stage up to about 3# (it'l be just like my service rifle!). I'll leave the sear spring alone for now. I found some trigger springs that are candidates. I also found two grip manufacturers (Grips4U and Armory Craft) that are working on "service" style (no palm swell or thumb rest) grips...due out soon. I'll report back here in the near future if anyone is interested. I'm also planning on loading up some 147 Hornady XTP subsonic loads (after all, it has a 1:10 twist barrel), but I wish I had something like a Ransom or HAMMR to run some more realistic tests. They're sooo expensive...

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Post by james r chapman Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:22 pm

Quality sandbags are dirt cheap...... Wink
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