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Sig P210 eligibility

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tovaert
NYKenn
Rush223
zanemoseley
Merick
Pilsudski
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Post by Pilsudski 1/19/2022, 1:53 pm

According to the CMP list of eligible pistols for EIC competition, the SIG P210 is listed.  Would the recently new 210 Target qualify?  The rules also state the trigger pull requirement is 4 lbs and symmetrical grips.  I don’t have a 210 but was thinking this might be a good option for leg matches.

Pilsudski

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Post by Merick 1/19/2022, 9:09 pm

Yes, probably, and no.

Yes- They are accurate enough to be competitive or better for EIC

Probably- The target grips skate the edge of the rules, which may or may not be a problem
https://www.bullseyeforum.net/t16413-sig-sauer-p210a-target-grips-for-eic-matches

No- As manufactured trigger pull may not make weight, and I have seen one DQ-ed for that. A spring change could be required.
https://www.bullseyeforum.net/t14295-sig-p210a-changing-the-trigger-return-spring-sear-adjustment

Merick

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Post by zanemoseley 1/19/2022, 9:22 pm

Put the P210 Standard slabs on it or aftermarket G10 slabs if they're legal. People have got the trigger up to legal weight before wirh mostly spring work I believe.

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Post by Rush223 1/19/2022, 11:19 pm

I replaced the trigger return spring to get mine to make just over 4 pound trigger weight. I also replaced the target grips because my interpretation of the rules, also they were too big for me. 
I like the gun, it’s plenty accurate, but I think there are better choices. It’s hard to beat a 1911 for several reasons.

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Post by NYKenn 1/20/2022, 8:38 am

I became distinguished shooting a Colt 1911 w/230grain hardball in 1991. 
I acquired a match grade Beretta after that to continue participating in service pistol matches.
I have since acquired a P-210. It is accurate, and shoots very well. 
Personally, I still prefer the 1911.  
Best advice is to pick one, make it rules legal, and stick with it.  
Good luck.

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Post by tovaert 1/21/2022, 8:35 am

Unfortunately I don't have any extra spring sets left...I put together the instructions for changing them, and adjusting the sear. The spring part numbers are in the instructions. It's not that difficult. Others here on the forum have made the modifications. As far as ammunition is concerned, the P210A shoots the heavier subsonic bullets pretty well (147 gr @ 925 fps). Recoil is mild...not much different than a .45 w/185 gr @ 750 fps. The Target grips were too large for me. There are G10 grips sold by Armory Craft, or checkered walnut grips sold by Grips4U.net, that might be a better fit to your hand.

tovaert

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Post by Pilsudski 1/21/2022, 1:06 pm

Thanks all for the replies. I suspected that the P210 would not work as a legal EIC pistol without modification. A 1911 works and is legal without modification but requires about $1.5k in modifications and a years wait to be competitive. I thought the Sig would be simple to get in the game.

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Post by RoyDean 1/21/2022, 7:22 pm

The P210 is simple to get in the game. Swap a small spring to fix the trigger - tovaert has produced a perfect video guide. At least 2 options for slim slab grips (I then sanded down one side to the minimum to suit my shortish fingers) + some skate board tape. Get some 147JHP ammo (reload your own is best). The gun will then shoot at least Master level scores. I had one - it did!

I admit that I sold it on (to a good friend) and am now dedicated to 1911 45ACP, but that change was nothing to do with the capability of the P210. And yes, my 1911 Service Pistol has cost an additional ~$1.5k and a long wait!!!

RoyDean

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Post by RoyDean 1/21/2022, 7:37 pm

Another "quick and cheap solution" for a Service Pistol is a Springfield Armory XD-M Competition Series with 5" barrel. Powder River do excellent drop-in trigger kits. Nothing else needed. Shoots match 185JHP ammo very well (if you choose the 45ACP version - which I prefer). Total cost for mine was about $750 I think.

I did not shoot it quite as well as the P210, but my fingers are a bit short for such a thick handled gun. Good enough for a decent shooter to get Distinguished though, IMHO. There are a couple of threads about these on this forum, can't recall his name, but at least one guy has won a big match with one of these (in 9mm).

But I think that SA have discontinued this particular model so you might have to hunt for one.

RoyDean

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Post by tovaert 1/22/2022, 6:24 am

I enjoyed shooting the P210A; and I really like the way the entire hammer and sear assembly are contained in an easily-removed unit. Mine also had a really good lockup, and it's not hard to disassemble everything and make simple modifications/additions. No complaints about accuracy, cycling, etc. The trigger does take some getting used to, since it pivots.

tovaert

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Post by TicTocer 1/23/2022, 11:36 am

My P210A Target has a trigger pull around 3 1/2 pounds. All will require modification to get up to 4 lbs. Think mine is on the high side.
Cannot find the tutorial on disassembly. Tovaert can you post a link?
Would love to polish up the trigger bar and look at the trigger return spring. In the future.

TicTocer

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Post by tovaert 1/24/2022, 10:27 am

Try this link:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0e5ixtu0qb5v88w/Installing_Trigger_Return_Sear_Springs_P210A_Rev3.pdf?dl=0

tovaert

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Post by TicTocer 1/24/2022, 12:31 pm

Thank you Tim. Much appreciated.

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Post by bpettet 2/7/2022, 7:16 pm

The P210 target is legal for CMP service pistol.  I got mine to 4# with the factory spring by adjusting the toggle bar in the grip frame.  I think it was a couple of turns to add 1/2 pound.  

There are also instructions and kits out there to get a NM style 2 stage trigger.  I haven't tried that yet.

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Post by tovaert 2/8/2022, 6:39 pm

I was the person offering that spring kit, however, please note that I am no longer offering the spring kit for sale. They are all sold out. The instructions I put together (see three posts above) are available, and have the spring part numbers noted towards the back of the instructions, so anyone can purchase the springs and make those modifications to make an EIC compliant P210A.

Tightening the barrel nut, thereby increasing the trigger pull force via a higher load (only) on the hammer/sear contact, did not work on my pistol...I think it depends on the particular gun. When I tightened the barrel nut to increase the trigger pull weight, it was too close to the hammer, and then I could not re-mount the grips. After backing it off the necessary amount in order to re-mount the grips, my trigger would no longer lift a 4# weight (it would lift about 3-3/4#). I think the shape of the P210A trigger shoe makes measuring trigger pull a little challenging. I use a weight set and insure that the weight is suspended at the trough in the factory trigger shoe (roughy halfway). If you don't have a weight set, and use a pull gauge, be careful where, on the trigger shoe, you take your pull measurements.

The Grayguns website now offers a P210A aftermarket trigger that is adjustable for take-up. The P210A already has an installed over-travel screw in the frame, rather than in the trigger like a 1911. When you replace the trigger, it is easy to change the trigger return spring; that, sear engagement adjustment, and tightening/loosening the barrel nut (IMHO best used as a fine adjustment) can be used to increase the trigger pull weight. 

Just my $0.02...Tim

tovaert

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Post by hengehold 2/8/2022, 10:12 pm

For EIC purposes, is there a difference between the 210-6 and the 210A Target?

In other words, is one of them more desirable for BE use?

-TH

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Post by tovaert 2/9/2022, 7:18 am

I think to answer that you'd have to shoot both pistols side-by-side. Perhaps others here have both models? The P210-6 may group a little better, depending on the ammo, since it has 1911-style locking lugs. The P210A does not. The P210-6 trigger may have a crisper release, less take-up, and a shorter reset? I think that would make it more desirable for rapids. The issue will be getting the pull weight up to 4#...same as the P210A. 

From what I can see, if you Google "P210 parts diagram", the P210 German/Swiss pistols use the simple helical spring housed inside the trigger shoe, that causes the first stage pull weight (and can be swapped out for a stiffer spring). This is the same arrangement as the P210A. Whether the spring geometry is identical...that I don't know. You'd have to disassemble it and measure the spring OD, length, and wire diameter. If it's approximately 0.56" in length, 0.156" OD, then that is the same basic geometry as the spring in the P210A.

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