Bullseye-L Forum
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Over travel - how much?

+10
chopper
bruce martindale
Allgoodhits
mhayford45
RJP
CR10X
jglenn21
Tim:H11
SteveT
dronning
14 posters

Go down

Over travel - how much? Empty Over travel - how much?

Post by dronning Thu Feb 22, 2018 3:43 am

Thoughts on how much and pro's con's of more verses less?
- Dave
dronning
dronning

Posts : 2581
Join date : 2013-03-20
Age : 70
Location : Lakeville, MN

Back to top Go down

Over travel - how much? Empty Re: Over travel - how much?

Post by SteveT Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:23 am

Either none or a lot.

Minimum overtravel -Advantage: Usually feels better to the shooter. Disadvantage: When the trigger hits the stop it can cause the gun to move and will probably happen while the bullet is still in the barrel. The effect will depend on the speed of trigger pull and the length of overtravel. Shorter overtravel means the trigger accelerates less after it releases before hitting the stop.

Medium overtravel - Advantages: None that I can think of. Disadvantage: The trigger has more time to accelerate after release so it hits the stop harder, moving the gun more.

Long / No overtravel stop - Advantages: (Maybe) The bullet has left the barrel before the trigger hits the stop. (Maybe) The shooter can ease off the trigger pressure after release so there is no impact on the stop. Disadvantages: If the previous assumptions are wrong the trigger will hit the stop even harder.

I have heard that many of the top shooters don't use an overtravel stop, but I can't remember where I heard it (Tony Brong's Blog? Advanced SAFS?).
SteveT
SteveT

Posts : 1053
Join date : 2011-06-10
Location : Illinois

https://sites.google.com/site/sdturner/shooting

mhayford45 likes this post

Back to top Go down

Over travel - how much? Empty Re: Over travel - how much?

Post by Tim:H11 Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:55 am

I prefer to have as little over travel as possible. I don’t have an aggressive or fast trigger finger. Slow and smooth. 

I don’t feel this in my 22 because the the trigger is so light but on my 45 where the trigger is heavier I feel like I have to pull through the trigger and all its weight then it breaks - and I’d rather it stop, instead of have the wall fall down behind it, and let my finger rush past the breaking point since there’s little to no resistance left now that the sear has been pushed out of engagement with the hammer. So to stop any jerkiness or to help with follow through I like a short release. 

Having said all this if you have good or proper trigger control - in theory you ought to be able to shoot it well one way or the other. I’ve spoken to someone who has shot with and without trigger overtravel stops and shot fine either way. 

Just depends on what you like and what you shoot best with.
Tim:H11
Tim:H11

Posts : 2105
Join date : 2015-11-04
Age : 35
Location : Midland, GA

Grunt likes this post

Back to top Go down

Over travel - how much? Empty Re: Over travel - how much?

Post by jglenn21 Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:26 am

you have to be a bit careful when you adjust for minimum overtravel on the 1911... too little and you sear nose will drag the hammer as it's released.. 

a simply test is to cock the gun and hold the hammer back.. now slowly pull the trigger . if you feel any drag as you slowly release the hammer,   you need more overtravel.

overtravel and pretravel is about personal feel...although both require a minimum amount for the 1911 to function safely, especially pretravel. just don't get too little of each and you'll be fine..

if you want to go crazy  check out this thread on both...151 posts and growing  What a Face

https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=912185


Last edited by jglenn21 on Sun Feb 05, 2023 10:55 am; edited 2 times in total
jglenn21
jglenn21

Posts : 2562
Join date : 2015-04-07
Age : 75
Location : monroe , ga

Back to top Go down

Over travel - how much? Empty Re: Over travel - how much?

Post by CR10X Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:55 am

What was said above by jglenn21.  My process is generally as follows. 

Make sure the pistol is cleared, empty, no ammo around and pointed in a safe direction.

Rack the slide to cock the hammer.  Make sure you have shooting grip and grip safety is fully depressed. Hold the hammer back with the off hand thumb.  Press trigger fully to the rear.  

Slowly release the hammer but keep it under control and see if it goes all the way down.

If not, not enough overtravel.

If it does, then you might want to adjust for less, see next step.

If there is a bump on the way down, not enough overtravel.  (But at this point, you are getting there.)

If there is just a bump, then go about a 1/4 turn more clearance each time (more overtravel) until you can't feel a bump or anything touching as the hammer is slowly lowered.  Continue until you feel nothing. 

Then add about another 1/4 turn more for that crud that will build up and stop your 4th shot during the rapid fire string.

If you want more overtravel, then keep going.  

Hope this helps.

CR10X

Posts : 1777
Join date : 2011-06-17
Location : NC

Grunt and Allgoodhits like this post

Back to top Go down

Over travel - how much? Empty Re: Over travel - how much?

Post by RJP Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:10 pm

With good follow through, you don't need a trigger stop. 

I have heard the term "forgiving or unforgiving" used to refer to guns where follow through is more or less important.

Having said that, I have always wondered if a soft trigger stop, made of rubber or  a spring, would give you a more forgiving trigger?

RJP

Posts : 24
Join date : 2011-06-10

Back to top Go down

Over travel - how much? Empty Re: Over travel - how much?

Post by mhayford45 Mon Jan 09, 2023 1:36 pm

I like this tread. 

I find that a enough over travel, i think medium from SteveT" allows me to feel when the hammer comes off the sear and lets me feel and reduce trigger acceleration before the stop is felt. It is a timing feel thing for over travel. This reduces dot movement if everything else is working.

mhayford45

Posts : 243
Join date : 2013-02-21
Location : MI

Back to top Go down

Over travel - how much? Empty Re: Over travel - how much?

Post by Allgoodhits Mon Jan 09, 2023 4:06 pm

Well, here we go. For revolvers, especially shooting DA, we when permitted, would most often use an overtravel screw which had a rubber back. Some adjusted so that it actually came into contact before the DA sear would release the hammer. Either way it was a "softer" stop if you will.

I have those same rubber insert over travel screws in all of my match 1911's now. Had to drill out the hole in the trigger and retap, because that overtravel screw is slightly larger than the regular 1911 match trigger overtravel screw. This enables me to have a soft landing so to speak on the trigger stop.

My .02
Allgoodhits
Allgoodhits

Posts : 874
Join date : 2017-09-17
Location : Northern Virginia

chopper likes this post

Back to top Go down

Over travel - how much? Empty Re: Over travel - how much?

Post by bruce martindale Mon Jan 09, 2023 11:03 pm

Think about the ratio of the sear force to the return spring force starting at the point where the sear released. Hard to measure but you can feel it. In a revolver, the sear is usually light with the stiffer return spring acting like a soft stop. Some guns are all sear force and no return and without a stop,  the trigger accelerates and gives TIMs Trigger induced Motion.  Good points stated above. I think it's a personal taste that interplays with your trigger control ability/quality.

bruce martindale

Posts : 1569
Join date : 2011-07-29
Location : Upstate NY

https://www.bullseyeforum.net/t20747-feeling-center-a-10-bullsey

Back to top Go down

Over travel - how much? Empty Re: Over travel - how much?

Post by chopper Tue Jan 10, 2023 1:53 pm

Allgoodhits wrote:Well, here we go. For revolvers, especially shooting DA, we when permitted, would most often use an overtravel screw which had a rubber back. Some adjusted so that it actually came into contact before the DA sear would release the hammer. Either way it was a "softer" stop if you will.

I have those same rubber insert over travel screws in all of my match 1911's now. Had to drill out the hole in the trigger and retap, because that overtravel screw is slightly larger than the regular 1911 match trigger overtravel screw. This enables me to have a soft landing so to speak on the trigger stop.

My .02
  I once emailed David Sams about roll triggers, specifically for a HS Victor. He said it's just about impossible to do for that pistol. He did offer some advice to me to simulate it and that was to put a dab of sealing caulk behind the trigger and adjust the width to get the proper tension.
 I think an overtravel screw with a rubber back would be nice also. Where would I find that type of screw?
Stan

chopper

Posts : 790
Join date : 2013-10-30
Age : 72
Location : Western Iowa

Back to top Go down

Over travel - how much? Empty Re: Over travel - how much?

Post by mhayford45 Tue Jan 10, 2023 2:07 pm

I would like several trigger over travel screws with rubber tips if you find some.

mhayford45

Posts : 243
Join date : 2013-02-21
Location : MI

Back to top Go down

Over travel - how much? Empty Re: Over travel - how much?

Post by Jon Eulette Tue Jan 10, 2023 2:11 pm

chopper wrote:
Allgoodhits wrote:Well, here we go. For revolvers, especially shooting DA, we when permitted, would most often use an overtravel screw which had a rubber back. Some adjusted so that it actually came into contact before the DA sear would release the hammer. Either way it was a "softer" stop if you will.

I have those same rubber insert over travel screws in all of my match 1911's now. Had to drill out the hole in the trigger and retap, because that overtravel screw is slightly larger than the regular 1911 match trigger overtravel screw. This enables me to have a soft landing so to speak on the trigger stop.

My .02
  I once emailed David Sams about roll triggers, specifically for a HS Victor. He said it's just about impossible to do for that pistol. He did offer some advice to me to simulate it and that was to put a dab of sealing caulk behind the trigger and adjust the width to get the proper tension.
 I think an overtravel screw with a rubber back would be nice also. Where would I find that type of screw?
Stan
HS has the smallest sear/hammer engagement of any pistol I've seen. Would have to modify the hammer to increase the engagement surface to try and get a roll trigger.
Jon
Jon Eulette
Jon Eulette

Posts : 4399
Join date : 2013-04-15
Location : Southern Kalifornia

Back to top Go down

Over travel - how much? Empty Re: Over travel - how much?

Post by Jack H Tue Jan 10, 2023 2:15 pm

I have shot many HS pistols.  Both with a stop set screw trigger and without.  I can't say I see a difference in feel or result.  To me an un-bubba'd HS trigger is perfection with or without the stop.
Jack H
Jack H

Posts : 2630
Join date : 2011-06-10
Age : 74
Location : Oregon

Back to top Go down

Over travel - how much? Empty Re: Over travel - how much?

Post by Jack H Tue Jan 10, 2023 2:29 pm

I have seen and shot a well worn HS trigger where the sear pin hole on the left was worn and the trigger bar hook moved the left end searpin forward as the sear tipped.  This movement actually made for  rubbery fee, kind of like a roll.  The sear/hammer surfaces are not released squarely
Moral here it to keep the sear pin lubed
Jack H
Jack H

Posts : 2630
Join date : 2011-06-10
Age : 74
Location : Oregon

Back to top Go down

Over travel - how much? Empty Re: Over travel - how much?

Post by wingnut170 Sun Feb 05, 2023 10:45 am

chopper wrote:
Allgoodhits wrote:Well, here we go. For revolvers, especially shooting DA, we when permitted, would most often use an overtravel screw which had a rubber back. Some adjusted so that it actually came into contact before the DA sear would release the hammer. Either way it was a "softer" stop if you will.

I have those same rubber insert over travel screws in all of my match 1911's now. Had to drill out the hole in the trigger and retap, because that overtravel screw is slightly larger than the regular 1911 match trigger overtravel screw. This enables me to have a soft landing so to speak on the trigger stop.

My .02
  I once emailed David Sams about roll triggers, specifically for a HS Victor. He said it's just about impossible to do for that pistol. He did offer some advice to me to simulate it and that was to put a dab of sealing caulk behind the trigger and adjust the width to get the proper tension.
 I think an overtravel screw with a rubber back would be nice also. Where would I find that type of screw?
Stan

Brownells  https://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/small-hardware/trigger-stop-screws/trigger-stop-screws-prod22167.aspx

wingnut170

Posts : 56
Join date : 2019-01-30

Back to top Go down

Over travel - how much? Empty Re: Over travel - how much?

Post by mhayford45 Sun Feb 05, 2023 10:55 am

WOW? does anyone know what the spec is for the trigger stop screw in a Greider trigger?

mhayford45

Posts : 243
Join date : 2013-02-21
Location : MI

Back to top Go down

Over travel - how much? Empty Re: Over travel - how much?

Post by RodJ Wed Feb 08, 2023 10:18 pm

google-fu gave this result on another well known forum by searching “greider trigger stop screw”

6-32 UNC, x 1/4" long

On setting overtravel I have to echo the need to ensure clearing the safety hooks. My fathers SW M52 sear was trashed from too little travel past release, and resulted in poor seat hammer engagement that it caused hammer follow no matter the additional pressure I added to the sear spring.

RodJ

Posts : 820
Join date : 2021-06-26
Location : TX

Back to top Go down

Over travel - how much? Empty Re: Over travel - how much?

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum