NRA Leaving Camp Perry

First topic message reminder :

"The NRA Competitions Division has advised the CMP that this year's NRA Pistol Championships will be NRA's final competition at Camp Perry, Ohio. The decision to move all NRA championships to Atterbury, Indiana, is a business decision made solely by the NRA. The NRA believes this move will better position it to focus on the continuing battle to protect this country's Second Amendment rights.

The CMP is saddened by the decision, but respects the NRA's need to chart its future.

CMP remains fully committed to Camp Perry and the historic National Rifle and Pistol Matches which have been held there continuously since 1907. CMP will move forward to grow the Camp Perry matches and to continue modernizing the ranges in its partnership with the Ohio National Guard.

CMP and NRA are not at odds. Both organizations look forward to partnering in future competitions serving all competitors."




Wow.

Think about this:
We went from only having a water logged Camp Perry with broken down huts as an option.
Now:

1. A much improved Camp Perry, drainage, new huts with air, world class air pistol range, but still needs to replace/upgrade the turning targets
   
2. Atterbury, hey the sound bites so far sound great.
   
3. Cardinal on it's way to being a world class Bullseye range.
   

We will have 3 great shooting venues!!  How awesome is that!

Things are really looking up!
- Dave

dronning wrote:

I personally feel that trying to support competitive shooting local matches are a distraction from defending 2A.  The NRA (& competitors) would be better off if the NRA handed those activities over to a separate, singularly focused competition organization. 
- Dave

Gee.... like the CMP?

weber1b wrote:

dronning wrote:

I personally feel that trying to support competitive shooting local matches are a distraction from defending 2A.  The NRA (& competitors) would be better off if the NRA handed those activities over to a separate, singularly focused competition organization. 
- Dave

Gee.... like the CMP?

Not sure what you mean because CMP has done NOTHING to help manage, promote or publish a calendar of local matches, in fact most EIC matches are run during an NRA State or Regional matches.  The CMP is not singularly focused on competition.  

CMP has their "CMP Games" events but you must meet their #'s on preregistration or they will pull the plug like they did in MN.
- Dave

Not sure what you mean because CMP has done NOTHING to help manage, promote or publish a calendar of local matches, in fact most EIC matches are run during an NRA State or Regional matches.  The CMP is not singularly focused on competition.  

CMP has their "CMP Games" events but you must meet their #'s on preregistration or they will pull the plug like they did in MN.
- Dave

Not saying they are perfect either. I had heard talk they might take it over and would have been less surprised about such an announcement vs the one that came down. Would I love to see a Bullseye organization take over the whole thing, sure. But that does not seem likely at this point.

weber1b wrote:Not saying they are perfect either. I had heard talk they might take it over and would have been less surprised about such an announcement vs the one that came down. Would I love to see a Bullseye organization take over the whole thing, sure. But that does not seem likely at this point.

Don't be to sure that won't happen, it's really up to us isn't it.
- Dave

I suspect the NRA wouldn't take the drastic action of leaving Camp Perry, and particularly announcing it in the manner they did, without a darn good reason.

Consider this: Notwithstanding the klutzy roll-out, could the NRA separating itself from the CMP be a bold move designed to facilitate the support and infrastructure we've been longing for? I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the CMP's recent bungling (look at the CMP's Rulebook and Match Administration blunders!) forced the NRA to finally say "enough already" and pull the plug on their co-habitation.

Let's wait and see how this all plays out for us. There might be plenty of room for Atterbury and Cardinal, and maybe also Camp Perry in the future. 

The NRA/ Camp Perry news was a shock. I'm personally going to wait for the rest of the story to come out, and see how Camp Atterbury evolves. This could be the best thing that's happened to bullseye in decades. A new or competing  sanctioning authority is also an exciting possibility. Lots in motion here. Progress is always destructive...

Corregidor wrote:look at the CMP's Rulebook and Match Administration blunders!

The NRA has no lessons to teach anyone about rulebooks. The error with the email address in the pistol rules has been online for a year now.
All the rulebooks are supposed to be aligned. They aren't.

Any split between two groups is more because organisations big or small are filled with people who can't share responsibility. The NRA and the NSSF can't even cooperate on a list of ranges and stores FFS.

There's often more concern that right logo gets the promotion and recognition than there is that the events go off well or that what is best for the industry and the majority of participants happens.

I heard the NRA canned 50% of the competitions staff this year so they will have more money to pay Wayne Lapierre's multi-million dollar salary and massive multi-million dollar pension package.  It seems the NRA management has become engrossed in enriching itself at the expense of the membership, competitive shooting and the 2nd Amendment.  

The National Rifle Association was formed to foster competitive shooting sports and was for many years the organization responsible for regulating and running everything up to Olympic style shooting in the country.

It would be ashamed if the NRA devolved into simply a pro-2nd amendment political lobby that employed a dozen hacks with multi-million dollar salaries.

lonegunman wrote:I heard the NRA canned 50% of the competitions staff this year so they will have more money to pay Wayne Lapierre's multi-million dollar salary and massive multi-million dollar pension package.  It seems the NRA management has become engrossed in enriching itself at the expense of the membership, competitive shooting and the 2nd Amendment.  

The National Rifle Association was formed to foster competitive shooting sports and was for many years the organization responsible for regulating and running everything up to Olympic style shooting in the country.

It would be ashamed if the NRA devolved into simply a pro-2nd amendment political lobby that employed a dozen hacks with multi-million dollar salaries.

https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/443270-leaked-documents-show-more-than-500000-in-alleged-spending-by

If you're not mad with how the NRA does things you aren't paying attention.

If you are not mad reading all this garbage, then you should take all your guns, bring them to nearest office of Democratic Party, beg them to take it!!  I've had enough of this in my previous life!

AP

https://www.conservapedia.com/The_Hill

"While not necessarily conservative, The Hill is generally more balanced compared to other mainstream media sources, although the comment sections for its online stories tend to get overwhelmed with liberal posters who make vulgar, immature and grossly misinformed comments that deliberately mischaracterize and libel conservative public figures and anyone who supports them. In 2018, it announced it would no longer attend the White House Correspondents Dinner minus "major reforms" after the event featured vulgar anti-Trump speakers.^[1] Leftists have occasionally attacked The Hill for not always reporting on the news from a left-wing perspective.^[2]"

Deleted:  Not worth it and I should have remembered the old saying.  "Never miss a good chance to shut up."

There are things in life that are important.

The move to Atterbury is not on my important list.

I look forward to shooting while standing on concrete, covered, and not moving between firing lines.

PhotoEscape wrote:
https://www.conservapedia.com/The_Hill

And at some point reasonable people have to be part of the solution. The polarisation and name calling is at ridiculous levels.
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Conservapedia

When does the trolling stop and proper dialog begin?

If you have concerns with the specific Hill article, raise them. The argument of who is biased propaganda from other biased propaganda sites is dragging everyone down.

The media, mainstream and other, are becoming “The Outrage Industrial Complex”. It doesn’t matter the topic so long as it outrages somebody.

A gentle reminder of the purpose of the General Discussion sub-forum: "General discussion on and off topic (No politics!)"

NRA leaving Camp Perry is a very bad idea for the shooting sport.   I don't care what the official line is from the NRA but the CMP and NRA have been fighting for years like a couple of kids.  The CMP will probably add Pistol to their matches so Camp Perry will have a good pistol attendance.  But, unless the NRA changes it attitude toward competitors this sport is on life support to keep it going the Military and Civilian shooter have to have matches together.  This in-fighting needs to stop.  

I for one am tired of getting calls from the NRA for money.   Perhaps president needs to go, or just get no salary along with the other dead weight at headquarters.
 
The Rifle matches have been at Atterbury for the last few years, and attendance has dropped.  The Army teams will not be attending this year and a lot of civilian shooters are not coming.  The housing on base is limited, there is a RV camping site close to the base.  If you have pollen problems the place is nightmare.   The rifle ranges are adequate at best. I don't know what the pistol ranges are like but should be as good as Camp Perry, especially if it rains.

roundman47 wrote:NRA leaving Camp Perry is a very bad idea for the shooting sport.

Top competitions are important, but it's the grassroots that ensure the survival of a sport.

roundman47 wrote:But, unless the NRA changes it attitude toward competitors this sport is on life support to keep it going the Military and Civilian shooter have to have matches together.  This in-fighting needs to stop.  

The attitude towards competitors seems to need a major adjustment:
https://www.bullseyeforum.net/t12303-are-other-match-directors-having-problems-getting-regional-match-supplies-from-nra

There seems to be a lot put into the website and certain materials, but the ball seems to be dropped on some very basic issues such as getting materials to directors, maintaining competitor data, and promoting and communicating.
I simply can't understand why basic contact information, a shareable calendar, providing supplies and cooperation with other sanctioning bodies could be so hard. With history and momentum so solidly on their side there should be no need for the likes of PrecisionShootingMatches.

Slartybartfast wrote:Top competitions are important, but it's the grassroots that ensure the survival of a sport.

+1 You make an excellent point there are far more bullseye shooters that will never go to the National Matches than have, and many of those that have gone only went once and that is all they ever intend on going.  There are also an increasing number of matches being held without seeking NRA or CMP approved match status because of the hassle.  People want to shoot so they do "fun" matches and often get more attendance.

It's going to be interesting to see where Pistol attendance shakes out between Perry and Atterbury.  There will be a % that attend both, some will decide on one or the other and then there will be the % that just quit going to the Nationals completely.

Both the NRA and CMP will need to do more than they have been doing to attract/keep shooters.  
- Dave

And yet precisionshootingmatches.Com is already up and running. 
Built by a shooter for the shooters and match directors. All done while the NRA was him hauling around saying their software will be out “ next month. It’s been over two years! And the quality of service has fallen drastically.

My prediction is that as has been the case with Smallbore, Highpower, Midrange, and Longrange, pistol championship attendance will plummet. 

The NRA has convinced the State of Indiana to potentially invest many millions of dollars on matches that will draw far less than 1000 competitors. Eventually the state will figure that out and the tap will close. Smallbore is down by 2/3 since it moved. Highpower is down by 2/3 as well. Last year's highpower championship had 123 shooters (the last at Perry had almost 300). 

If you cut your costs by 50% but lose 2/3 of your customers, is it a bargain?

Just to add to my post above, I hope the competition between the NRA and CMP works out for the benefit of the shooters and we end up have 2 or more "National Match" level events.  Plus I hope they are good enough to drive more attendance.  Wouldn't that be something!  Time will tell.  

Even if it does happen neither the NRA or CMP have put any focused effort on making local matches easier to run or promote.  It looks like it is up to the shooters to make that happen.
- Dave

Danehogle wrote:And yet precisionshootingmatches.Com is already up and running. 
Built by a shooter for the shooters and match directors. All done while the NRA was him hauling around saying their software will be out “ next month. It’s been over two years! And the quality of service has fallen drastically.

I have no idea how that web site works, but at first glance, it's not impressive. Zero matches listed for Illinois. Are the Match Directors and / or competitors responsible for making entries?

match directors. it's in the match director FAQ's

Mike, 
it is up to the match directors to add their matches to the list. 
There are several tutorial videos on how to use the site. Score cards, and other tools for the directors and the shooters are there for use.

Every couple of years or so there's a new "big thing". A few years ago it was, what, pistolmatches.com?

I'm old enough to be the "old bull" on the hill. I'm also old enough to remember when a few "young bulls" decided that international shooters didn't need the NRA.

How did that work out for the shooters?