Camp Perry or Cardinal Center

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Camp Perry or Cardinal Center for future nationals

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Camp Perry or Cardinal Center

Post by DirComp on Tue Nov 24, 2015 9:05 am

First topic message reminder :

Good morning all.  I was on this site this morning and read through the questions being asked about the Cardinal Center.  I thought that I would share some things with you and generate some discussion.

Mark Johnson, the COO of CMP, has advised that he will go to his Board of Directors and ask for funding to install electronic targets at Camp Perry that will be suitable to fire High Power, Smallbore, and Pistol.  If approved, the target date for being up and running is for the start of the National Matches in 2017.  The NRA will pay a lease fee to CMP for use of these targets.

I was recently contacted by a representative of the Cardinal Center and asked to commit to going there in 2017.  Cardinal Center will probably use turning targets and paper, just like what we use at Camp Perry now.  I did not commit but left the door open.  I cannot commit to going to a range that currently does not exist.  The target date for the start of the Cardinal Center is the start of the National Matches in 2017.

So now we might be faced with a choice; 1) stay at Camp Perry and shoot on electronic targets; 2) move to Cardinal Center and shoot on turning targets.

Everyone who has shot the National Matches knows what Camp Perry is like so I won't dwell on that.  At Cardinal Center there would be some major changes.  Not in the way the events are fired but in the way you live.  The cabins onsite would likely be taken up by the NRA to house staff, leaving RVs and hotels as the other housing options.  If you elect NOT to rent/bring an RV, hotels become important.  The nearest exit with hotels is 9 miles away and the next exit with hotels is 19 miles away.  I don't consider these distances to be objectionable but you might based on what you are used to.  At Bianchi Cup competitors drive 15 miles one way to the range each day and don't complain about it but this is a major change from the way things work at Camp Perry.  It won't be quite so easy to run back to your room after shooting a morning 900 and then return for the team matches that afternoon.  There is one, and only one, restaurant on site but plenty near the hotels.

The Cardinal Center is a terrific place but will entail some changes by everyone, NRA and competitors, alike.

Kick around the pros and cons and let me know what you think.

Dennis Willing

DirComp

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Re: Camp Perry or Cardinal Center

Post by John B Fowler on Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:58 am

UPDATE-All, Sorry for the delay in obtaining the below information:
Froneck, Reference Pittman-Robertson- No answer via email from Ohio DNR but calling the Wildlife number got me to Matt Neumeier, the state's shooting coordinator for P-R funds and he confirmed they do not go to Camp Perry as it is a military installation, funded by DoD and the NGB and not a public range.
Danehogle and Rob, Reference Range Safety- The cognizant document is DA-PAM 385-63 Range Safety, and I found the current version, dtd 16APR14.  In it, the X distance factors are 12 gauge (7.5,8 or 9) 275m.; .22LR 1400m.; .45ACP 1690m.; 9mm 1800m.; and .38 1806m.  My RSO manual I see has been updated and the new version is not on-line for free so not having the "current" NRA manual I can't quote it.  Using Google Earth two weeks ago, it appears the Cardinal is boundaried by CR217, Watson Road on the north, CR218 Berkshire-South Woodbury on the west, CR225 W Liberty East Road on the south and SR61 on the east.  North to south distance between the roads came up 1908m. and west to east distance between the roads came up 2083m. for me using the built in measuring program.  Of concern is a mobile home park in the northeast quadrant at 1620m from the current firing line, a home south of 217 and a home east of 218. The location of the as-built firing points, the as-built height and materials of the berms, the as-built construction of the backstops and the construction of the overhead baffle systems if there are any, will ultimately determine the safety of the planned ranges.

John B Fowler

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Re: Camp Perry or Cardinal Center

Post by james r chapman on Fri Jan 22, 2016 11:52 am

All some things the construction engineers are responsible for.

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james r chapman
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Re: Camp Perry or Cardinal Center

Post by Rob Kovach on Fri Jan 22, 2016 12:53 pm

John Fowler,

If the range isn't constructed to meet safety requirements, the point will be moot, as there won't be any matches held there. Please don't bring up this straw-man argument again.
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Re: Camp Perry or Cardinal Center

Post by Danehogle on Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:36 pm

Mr. Fowler,
Again, you have assumed the location of the new complex, and you have assumed incorrectly.
The Cardinal Shooting Center has much more land than you believe. Seeing as you do not know the location of the pistol complex, your figures and distance calculations are incorrect.
As of last week, construction has begun.
The SSSF has signed a contract to hold their national event there, THIS YEAR.
If you wish, call me, My number is 740-627-1941. I will gladly take the time and give you a tour of the new complex and show you exactly where everything is being built.


Danehogle

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Re: Camp Perry or Cardinal Center

Post by John B Fowler on Sat Jan 23, 2016 9:30 pm

Rob Kovach and Danehogle,  Thanks for the update i.e. explaining the pistol complex is not in the shotgun area and will not include any housing or roads within the x distances for ammunition used.  No ill intent on my part, but from personal experience within the last 10 years have seen two fine law enforcement ranges on airports that ended up being either closed or restricted over range fan issues when stray bullets were found where they shouldn't have been.  Danehogle no need to waste your time on a special tour for me, I'll keep my eyes open for a bullseye match there once you are up and running and plan to come down and shoot a match or two.   I was last down in 2006 when my SCTP daughter was there for the state shoot after Vandalia was closed.  FWIW, the continued use of paper targets is important to me, something about seeing for sure the holes I shot, or the ones the clown beside cross fired on my target, is part of the whole experience.  I believe CMP would be mistaken to go electronic at CP but I haven't fired them so will have to give them a try as well.  Again no ill intent, safety first, last and always.  Regards.

John B Fowler

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Re: Camp Perry or Cardinal Center

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