NRA Leaving Camp Perry

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Post by john bickar on 4/26/2019, 7:00 pm

First topic message reminder :

"The NRA Competitions Division has advised the CMP that this year's NRA Pistol Championships will be NRA's final competition at Camp Perry, Ohio. The decision to move all NRA championships to Atterbury, Indiana, is a business decision made solely by the NRA. The NRA believes this move will better position it to focus on the continuing battle to protect this country's Second Amendment rights.

The CMP is saddened by the decision, but respects the NRA's need to chart its future.

CMP remains fully committed to Camp Perry and the historic National Rifle and Pistol Matches which have been held there continuously since 1907. CMP will move forward to grow the Camp Perry matches and to continue modernizing the ranges in its partnership with the Ohio National Guard.

CMP and NRA are not at odds. Both organizations look forward to partnering in future competitions serving all competitors."




Wow.
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Post by Dcforman on 4/27/2019, 10:51 am

It should also be pointed out that the NRA is "committing" $4.1 million to upgrade Atterbury. But it hasn't been approved by the board yet, and the NRA is in financial trouble. Don't see how this happens...

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Post by Mike38 on 4/27/2019, 10:55 am

Anyone know what the weather is commonly like at Atterbury? Standing knee deep in mud with 50 mph cross winds off the lake is what has kept me from considering attending the national matches at Perry. Shooting is supposed to be fun. Perry doesn't sound like fun.
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Post by Dcforman on 4/27/2019, 11:02 am

I just looked up Airbnb's near Camp Atterbury...  No  Looks like bringing the family isn't really an option...

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Post by LenV on 4/27/2019, 11:10 am

Did you notice that North just resigned?
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Post by dronning on 4/27/2019, 11:16 am

Dcforman wrote:Not sure anyone else heard this, but the NRA board asked Wayne Lapierre to resign yesterday. He refused. 

Dave
Board did not ask him to resign.  North tried to force (blackmail) Lapierre to resign  Probably because the vendor that was paying North was under investigation for over billing, and it didn't work.  Backfired, North will not serve a second term.


A lawsuit filed by the NRA against Ackerman last month claims the company overbilled the group and that North had a conflict of interest because Ackerman paid him.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/nra-president-says-he-wont-serve-second-term-amid-turmoil-in-gun-rights-group?fbclid=IwAR37XrnTcP8_tHegmkK8VoEBtad4tFPupVR79-txx6p5tDgyI0QBN4tkz60

- Dave
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Post by Dcforman on 4/27/2019, 11:29 am

Ah. I was just reposting some things from other discussions. Looks like I might have gotten a few details wrong.

I think I'm just upset because I was hoping for a Nationals move to Cardinal, which is only 30 minutes from me. Atterbury just seems so out in the middle of nowhere.

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Post by dronning on 4/27/2019, 11:37 am

Dcforman wrote:Ah. I was just reposting some things from other discussions. Looks like I might have gotten a few details wrong.

I think I'm just upset because I was hoping for a Nationals move to Cardinal, which is only 30 minutes from me. Atterbury just seems so out in the middle of nowhere.
+1 on Cardinal it would have been the right choice!
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Post by Allen Barnett on 4/27/2019, 12:21 pm

As for the question asked about Atterbury weather, in Jul or August it will be HOT with high humidity. Temps will be anywhere from 85 to 105 degrees with humidity running 60 percent plus.  Here in the rust bucket of America it is usually the humidity that makes things unbearable.

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Post by Al on 4/27/2019, 5:19 pm

Thus far I've been to the Camp Perry National Matches 7 times. 8 with 2019. From the very first time I felt like I had arrived at the pinnacle of competitive shooting (pistol for me anyway). So much history and character just oozes out of every building and range. Reading the background of the giants the ranges are named after.

Say to the average trigger puller "Camp Perry" and they'll know. Not the same with Attabury, not even close.

Sad to say, unless the CMP comes up with another "National Match" for that week, there won't be a 9th pilgrimage. I'm just not now & will never be "attached" as it were, to any other location. There just isn't the history.

Allen

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Post by Danehogle on 4/27/2019, 9:17 pm

Just to share some information, Three weeks ago, Cardinal ordered 200 more turning targets. I have been  assured the ranges will be finished and there will be 300 firing points for pistol and smallbore.
This news from the NRA, however you feel about it, is not stoping Cardinal. Jim Henderson and the rest of the Cardinal crew’s mission is to have the best shooting  facility  In the US if not the world.  
I do know that Cole Went to Cardinal at the end of pistol week last year. So he does know of the potential Cardinal has and is growing every day. Cardinal can build the ranges faster, better, and with a lot less red tape. Built by shooters.... for shooters.  What ever the  sanctioning body, NRA, CMP, ASSA or any other Association.....   bullseye  pistol and smallbore will always have a home at Cardinal.

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Post by Mike M. on 4/27/2019, 9:34 pm

I'm wondering when (not so much "if" anymore) the NRA will dump Bullseye pistol entirely.  They are the nation's premier civil rights group, they do yeoman work on basic safety instruction...but as a competitive shooting organization, they are a total loss with no insurance.

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Post by Mel427 on 4/28/2019, 12:51 am

I've been to Camp Perry more than a few times in my life. My first time there the CMP didn't even exist it was called the DCM. The history and tradition associated with that place is long and colorful it would be a waste to see it all ruined over a "business decision "
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Post by john bickar on 4/28/2019, 2:22 am

Danehogle wrote:Just to share some information, Three weeks ago, Cardinal ordered 200 more turning targets. I have been  assured the ranges will be finished and there will be 300 firing points for pistol and smallbore.
This news from the NRA, however you feel about it, is not stoping Cardinal. Jim Henderson and the rest of the Cardinal crew’s mission is to have the best shooting  facility  In the US if not the world.  
I do know that Cole Went to Cardinal at the end of pistol week last year. So he does know of the potential Cardinal has and is growing every day. Cardinal can build the ranges faster, better, and with a lot less red tape. Built by shooters.... for shooters.  What ever the  sanctioning body, NRA, CMP, ASSA or any other Association.....   bullseye  pistol and smallbore will always have a home at Cardinal.

Dane, I am in "trust, but verify" mode on Cardinal.

I do appreciate that y'all have not positioned your matches to draw shooters away from Canton McKinley.

Looking forward to shooting there in July for "verification".

I'm flying across the country to shoot at Cardinal and Canton (and not at Perry). I only have so many vacation weeks, and the value proposition of shooting 360 rounds at Cardinal and then (up to) 480 rounds at Canton within the space of a week is pretty strong.

I'll try not to shoot holes in your target number markers Laughing
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Post by Outthere on 4/28/2019, 5:54 am

Dcforman wrote:It should also be pointed out that the NRA is "committing" $4.1 million to upgrade Atterbury. But it hasn't been approved by the board yet, and the NRA is in financial trouble. Don't see how this happens...

Who's cousin got the "upgrade" contracts?

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Post by Outthere on 4/28/2019, 6:07 am

Allen Barnett wrote:As for the question asked about Atterbury weather, in Jul or August it will be HOT with high humidity. Temps will be anywhere from 85 to 105 degrees with humidity running 60 percent plus.  Here in the rust bucket of America it is usually the humidity that makes things unbearable.
I've been to Columbus,Indiana in July. It's brutal. 

I think I've gotten to the point in my life that I just don't want to be that uncomfortable any more.

Input from the rifle shooters would be welcome.

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Post by CR10X on 4/28/2019, 6:51 am

While I'm not very pleased with the decision of the NRA (really, really, really NOT) but the concerns about Canton (CMP and Cardinal) may be misplaced, at least at this time.  

I'm sure that everybody can find something to complain about when things get changed; weather, bathrooms, lack of beer, I'll have to drive 30 more minutes, its too (fill in the blank).  Well, when you start looking for excuses, you've already lost sight of what you were trying to do.  (Wow, high humidity at 60 to 80 percent?  Try a North Carolina tobacco field at 95 to a 100 degrees and 90 percent humidity for a couple of months.)  

Remember, its a contest and conditions are the conditions.  Luck favors the prepared and adversity dilutes chance.  If you want to see who's really the best, find the worst conditions.....

Anyway, I'm not on the bandwagon either, but let's work on finding a good solution given the conditions rather than bitching about wants and don'ts. 

Since its only about 5 hours from Camp Atterbury to Alliance OH, the Canton Regional can still be the weekend before and the NRA, since they are at different location can start on Tuesday or Wednesday and shoot through Friday or Saturday (like we used to in the the past).  

Camp Perry is only about 4.5 hours from Camp Atterbury and Cardinal is within 2 or 3 hours.  It ain't that much more of a trip in the overall time frame, at least for most of us on the east coast. 

So it appears to me that if everyone really wanted to cooperate, a schedule could be created that covers about 2 weeks and allows shooters to shoot the most they could according to their vacation schedules and other commitments.  It might even help since a lot of folks can't take off the week of the 4th and others only get that week.  THIS is the opportunity for the NRA, CMP, Canton and Cardinal to work out a schedule that provides multiple options for Precision Pistol shooters.  And they could even rotate the schedule of NRA and CMP to provide alternate year options.

Otherwise, all the parties involved can just continue to alienate various segments of precision pistol shooters, one by one, until everything gets diluted. 

Just my opinionated opinion -----

Cecil Rhodes


Last edited by CR10X on 4/28/2019, 8:56 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by lyman1903 on 4/28/2019, 7:46 am

Mike38 wrote:Anyone know what the weather is commonly like at Atterbury? Standing knee deep in mud with 50 mph cross winds off the lake is what has kept me from considering attending the national matches at Perry. Shooting is supposed to be fun. Perry doesn't sound like fun.


knee deep? only if you are standing in Lake Erie,,,,

winds come up with storms, 


I've been 3x's  hung out with the State team, shot a few matches, did some sight seeing, 
and spent way too much money on Commercial Row and the North Store,,,,

it was very much fun, 


a Perry Joke,,

3 shooters, Service Rifle, Smallbore and Bullseye , were walking the line one morning, and came across a big mudhole,,

Smallbore guy threw his had down,  and stormed off the the Range Officer tent to file a complaint,
Bullseye guy steps over the mudhole and continues on,,
Service Rifle guy drops down, slings up, and gets into position

I do know a few older shooters that were shooting Rifle one year with a lot of storms, 
seems they got soaked on the range (had to use a hair dryer bought from the Px to get the fog out of the scope,,)
and the water was a bit deep in the hut area that a couple flooded, 
just a couple inches I was told, not high enough to get on the cots,,
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Post by Multiracer on 4/28/2019, 8:11 am

Outthere wrote:
Dcforman wrote:It should also be pointed out that the NRA is "committing" $4.1 million to upgrade Atterbury. But it hasn't been approved by the board yet, and the NRA is in financial trouble. Don't see how this happens...

Who's cousin got the "upgrade" contracts?
Now that is funny !!!

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Post by john bickar on 4/28/2019, 2:56 pm

CR10X wrote:if everyone really wanted to cooperate

What have you seen in the past decade (or more) that indicates THAT will ever happen? Hate to be a cynic here, but look at what has happened to smallbore and high power.
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Post by HogCommander on 4/28/2019, 3:29 pm

May not make a difference but I emailed the CMP today (Chief Operating Officer, Director Emeritus and the Programs Chief) urging them to create a new national match at Camp Perry.  My request was essentially for a CMP equivalent of an NRA 2700 with same rules, equipment, ammo and courses of fire as an NRA 2700. 

It's hard enough for my team to all get to Canton/Perry...we're all part time shooters scattered from California to Florida.  Adding a new destination in Indiana may well prevent us from being able to compete as a team in the NRA's portion of the National Matches.  If the CMP offered an alternative to keep things consolidated at Camp Perry I would be all over it.

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Post by jglenn21 on 4/28/2019, 6:15 pm

Dcforman wrote:Not sure anyone else heard this, but the NRA board asked Wayne Lapierre to resign yesterday. He refused. 

Dave

Then fire hin and stop paying his replacement 1millon plus
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Post by dronning on 4/28/2019, 6:38 pm

jglenn21 wrote:
Dcforman wrote:Not sure anyone else heard this, but the NRA board asked Wayne Lapierre to resign yesterday. He refused. 

Dave

Then fire hin and stop paying his replacement 1millon plus

dronning
Dcforman wrote:Not sure anyone else heard this, but the NRA board asked Wayne Lapierre to resign yesterday. He refused. 

Dave
Board did not ask him to resign.  North tried to force (blackmail) Lapierre to resign  Probably because the vendor that was paying North was under investigation for over billing, and it didn't work.  Backfired, North will not serve a second term.


A lawsuit filed by the NRA against Ackerman last month claims the company overbilled the group and that North had a conflict of interest because Ackerman paid him.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/nra-president-says-he-wont-serve-second-term-amid-turmoil-in-gun-rights-group?fbclid=IwAR37XrnTcP8_tHegmkK8VoEBtad4tFPupVR79-txx6p5tDgyI0QBN4tkz60

- Dave
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Post by jglenn21 on 4/28/2019, 6:48 pm

I'd still like to see him out
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Post by Anamakee on 4/28/2019, 7:11 pm

South Central Indiana in July can be beautiful and miserable. Plan for 90° and 90% humidity. Expect severe thunderstorms, but hope for the best. Columbus and Seymour are both nice enough towns to visit while Indy is about 40 minutes away.

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Post by Slartybartfast on 4/29/2019, 9:46 am

Biggest problem in all organisations, IMO, is a failure to stay focused.

The focus of the competition division of a parent association should be COMPETITION. Being all political takes away from the competition and can affect the competitions in disastrous ways if they bound to the political wing and political winds change.

IPSC and IDPA don't have any need to be political to in the "continuing battle to protect this country's Second Amendment rights." Their members can join the NRA and the organisations can sign joint position papers and show support when appropriate. Same should be of any competitor or competition.

With all the complaints I've read about failings and shortcomings of the NRA it surprises me that no one from Bullseye has created a breakaway organisation like small bore rifle has.
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