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Missing in action - one hole.

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Post by mikemyers on 8/12/2020, 3:27 pm

I had a fun match with a friend this morning at 25 and 15 yards.  We were both shooting Model 52's.

What is the appropriate way to score this target?  I know I fired 10 rounds, and I may be a little rough still at calling my shots, but all ten rounds felt perfect.  Then I found this.   

I gave myself 90 points, so my friend beat me by one point, but what happens at a real match where two rounds go through one hole?

Missing in action - one hole. Img_3011
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Post by bruce martindale on 8/12/2020, 3:32 pm

It's there...

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Post by mikemyers on 8/12/2020, 3:34 pm

You have either better eyes than I do (quite likely) or infinitely more experience at this than I have (absolutely).  I agree it's there, somewhere, but I can't find any sign of it.
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Post by spursnguns on 8/12/2020, 3:37 pm

Hello mikemyers,

7:00 in the X....possibly two holes.

Jim
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Post by bruce martindale on 8/12/2020, 3:39 pm

I was thinking 3:00 in the X.

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Post by mikemyers on 8/12/2020, 3:40 pm

Bruce, what am I missing?

Missing in action - one hole. Img_3012
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Post by james r chapman on 8/12/2020, 3:48 pm

clearly 9 holes...

"PLUUUG!
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Post by spursnguns on 8/12/2020, 3:51 pm

PLUG.

Jim
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Post by 10sandxs on 8/12/2020, 4:09 pm

I'd say either the x at 3 or the right 10... both have some extra tearing. The rule book says the benefit of the doubt goes to the shooter so if i were scoring, it would be an x...

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Post by ric1911a1 on 8/12/2020, 4:18 pm

3 o'clock in the X-ring. Best guess from here..........
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Post by LenV on 8/12/2020, 4:28 pm

It's 5:30 in the X. I wouldn't even need an overlay. If you did overlay you would see that the hole is a little long top to bottom. I don't look very hard for missing shots if everything is inside the 10 ring. I used to score Mel Makin a lot. I could of spent half the match looking for bullets that went thru the same hole.
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Post by Wobbley on 8/12/2020, 4:31 pm

Look at it from the back.  Often it becomes apparent then.  The 3 o’clock X is the suspect.
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Post by Wobbley on 8/12/2020, 4:35 pm

Missing in action - one hole. 9ada2110
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Post by john bickar on 8/12/2020, 4:58 pm

10sandxs wrote:The rule book says the benefit of the doubt goes to the shooter
Only if there's a cluster of 3 or more shots
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Post by CR10X on 8/12/2020, 4:58 pm

You can't plug a double. Scorer should use an overlay to see if they can identify the double, that's part of the function of an overlay. Then you challenge, if you don't agree. (But the referee will score the whole target, so don't be surprised if some of the other "close" shot holes get scored the other way.)

Some referees might use a "carrot" to check for doubles if the cardboard backer is new. I've got one that Dennis Willing gave me years ago. It's a tapered brass plug with engraved rings along the length. You can drop it in various shot holes and it will settle just a little deeper in a really close double hole.

An "Eagle Eye" scoring aid can be used, but only as a magnifier since it's not NRA approved (as of my last inquiry).

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Post by john bickar on 8/12/2020, 4:59 pm

I would call the 5 o'clock 10 a double.
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Post by james r chapman on 8/12/2020, 5:02 pm

I guess I'f we're giving away points
it might as well be the 7 o'clock X that caused the tear out to the 9 o'clock X
.38 148 gr bullets are notorious for yawing at various yardages.
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Post by CR10X on 8/12/2020, 5:03 pm

I think John is correct. But would need to look at that X at 3:00 first.

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Post by john bickar on 8/12/2020, 5:05 pm

CR10X wrote:You can't plug a double.  Scorer should use an overlay to see if they can identify the double, that's part of the function of an overlay.  Then you challenge, if you don't agree.  (But the referee will score the whole target, so don't be surprised if some of the other "close" shot holes get scored the other way.)

Some referees might use a "carrot" to check for doubles if the cardboard backer is new.  I've got one that Dennis Willing gave me years ago.  It's a tapered brass plug with engraved rings along the length.  You can drop it in various shot holes and it will settle just a little deeper in a really close double hole.

An "Eagle Eye" scoring aid can be used, but only as a magnifier since it's not NRA approved (as of my last inquiry).

CR


The "carrot" works well when you have stiff cardboard backing, as at Camp Perry. It's not very useful elsewhere.

The "Eagle Eye" is complete garbage in my experience.
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Post by CR10X on 8/12/2020, 5:14 pm

As a magnifier, its ok. Don't like / trust the etched rings very much. I use one to see the "leaded edge" when needed as I've gotten older and blind.
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Post by James Hensler on 8/12/2020, 5:18 pm

Every time the kind folks that score my targets say 90 with 5 in this case.
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Post by Pbmoser1954 on 8/12/2020, 6:32 pm

Mike you need to get yourself a set of overlays
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Post by mikemyers on 8/12/2020, 6:45 pm

Overlays and carrots??????

OK, I'll find out what they are and where to buy one.  

As someone noted up above, I photographed the back of the target.  As noted, to my eyes, one hole is clearly not quite round, and the shadow shows this quite clearly, 6:30 in the 10 ring.  (It's a mirror image as seen from the back).  5:30 in the X-ring is my other guess.  I'm just looking at shapes and guessing, I've got zero experience at this.

Maybe I should flip the image from the back side, so the positions match the front view.  

Great, instead of not knowing any holes that might be a double, now I've got at least three holes to choose from.
Of course, the good news, is that the score is now 100, but it's only at 15 yards.  Nice, but no cigar!

Missing in action - one hole. Img_3013
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Post by chiz1180 on 8/12/2020, 6:55 pm

PM an address and I will send you a set of overlays, I have an extra set. If I were scoring the target it would either be the 5 o clock 10, or the 7 o clock x

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Post by mikemyers on 8/12/2020, 7:04 pm

Well, I found this, but no clear answer.  I'll check with Champions Choice.
https://www.bullseyeforum.net/t7710-cheapest-place-to-order-scoring-overlay

Anybody know if 'magload' is still around?
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