Question: Scoping your slow fire shots

by ponzio 1/25/2024, 2:56 pm

First topic message reminder :

Question: Do you scope your slow fire shots as you shoot? Does anyone here advocate against scoping after each shot?

In an effort to manage emotions, I have been changing my shot process to not include scoping the previous shot and focusing on only the next shot in slow fire.

Additional context:
I have been shooting bullseye for 2 years now. I have a strong case, Kowa spotting scope on the mount and bullseye guns that I cannot yet shoot to their ability (Salyer built Range Officer and Volquartsen accurized Ruger Mark IV). My scores hover around 270 now. After reading bullseye mind, I am trying to focus on the next shot and not worry about the last shot.

ponzio

by DA/SA 1/27/2024, 2:46 pm

SaraiEsq wrote:Since I don't have mad shot calling skillz, the debate on scoping is theoretical for me.

Scoping each shot is how you learn to call your shots.

Take the shot. Visualize where the dot was when the shot broke. Then scope to verify.

You will eventually put two and two together!

by Sa-tevp 1/27/2024, 2:54 pm

While the person in this video shoots a little funny and leaves a lot of the fifty yard range unused, shot calling is explained. I was hoping to find the section of the CMP Mind Over Mater Bullseye Pistol DVD where Adam Sokolowski explains calling the shot. The exercise of shooting and marking a target next to the shooter helps to learn this technique.

by Single_handed 1/27/2024, 2:54 pm

FWIW. I scope every shot. Mostly because I want to know if I’m on call. If I am, great! I’m the jacka$$ that threw that 6 down range and it’s not a fundamental or equipment issue.
Also, I’m a glutton for punishment and enjoy self degradation…

by Merick 1/27/2024, 3:04 pm

Wobbley wrote:People do, essentially your firing point is your space, but you do have to stand without touching anything.

#1 Occasionally someone somewhere else on the bench is using their space as an anvil or dance partner or something similarly kinetic. These occasions are usually limited to when I am trying to look through my scope.

#2 I have all the rifle stuff anyhow and I can adjust it so I can use it easier than bending over to look through my box mounted scope.

by JHHolliday 1/27/2024, 5:01 pm

(Second attempt*)

For those unable to scope during training / practice, "Shoot-N-See" (splatterburst, etc) stick-on targets can be fixed over the black to show POI's. This works at my range (50'-75'), and these are available in various diameters. I've been using the 4" (over the entire black) and 1" (over the 10), to confirm calls. I recently ordered some 3", which is the size of the black for 50' targets.

https://i.postimg.cc/1tnGFSwK/see.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/4ypp8187/see-1.jpg

1" for calling 10s
https://i.postimg.cc/W3BM6y7c/see-center.jpg

*My first post about this never appeared! Not the first time this happened either...

by john bickar 1/27/2024, 6:33 pm

chiz1180 wrote:
john bickar wrote:
I'll repeat: Scope. Every. Shot. Learn to do this and it will make you a better shooter.

I disagree as I have discovered from the conditions that I regularly shoot, it often is not possible to scope every shot, low light conditions or rain for example. Another big condition is wind. Shooting slow fire in the wind, if I encounter a lull and I am ready to take a shot, I often will take two, sometimes even three or four shots. If I were to stop and scope each shot I could loose the advantageous condition.

In the most ideal perfect conditions, yes I do scope every shot. However around 5-10% of the time, conditions dictate otherwise, which is why my process is not completely reliant on the spotting scope.

Yeah, I'm not talking about that either. I shoot doubles and triples on the long line regularly, even in no-wind conditions. I don't disrupt my shot process to scope.

by 1911a145 1/27/2024, 10:18 pm

john bickar wrote:
JHHolliday wrote:
john bickar wrote:Scope every shot.
I'm a bit surprised by this answer. After many years of call-training, don't you HM/M guys KNOW where every shot went without checking? Or is it unlearnable?
The ability to call one's shots is fundamental to being a good shooter, Bullseye or whatever other discipline.

Shoot the shot.

Call it.

Scope it to verify.

Adjust if needed.

Move on.

Seven one on

by RodJ 1/28/2024, 10:45 pm

Sa-tevp wrote:While the person in this video shoots a little funny and leaves a lot of the fifty yard range unused, shot calling is explained. I was hoping to find the section of the CMP Mind Over Mater Bullseye Pistol DVD where Adam Sokolowski explains calling the shot. The exercise of shooting and marking a target next to the shooter helps to learn this technique.

After watching the video maybe 10 times or so, I finally began to see the front sight at the critical moment. Tonight at the range I began to call shots semi consistently for the first time. Thanks for posting this.

by john bickar 1/28/2024, 11:17 pm

1911a145 wrote:
john bickar wrote:
JHHolliday wrote:
john bickar wrote:Scope every shot.
I'm a bit surprised by this answer. After many years of call-training, don't you HM/M guys KNOW where every shot went without checking? Or is it unlearnable?
The ability to call one's shots is fundamental to being a good shooter, Bullseye or whatever other discipline.

Shoot the shot.

Call it.

Scope it to verify.

Adjust if needed.

Move on.
Seven one on

If I wanted your opinion, I'd give it to you.

by Sa-tevp 1/29/2024, 7:22 pm

RodJ wrote:
After watching the video maybe 10 times or so, I finally began to see the front sight at the critical moment. Tonight at the range I began to call shots semi consistently for the first time. Thanks for posting this.

I am glad to help.

In the Adam Sokolowski segment on the CMP DVD he had a repair center on the bench and marks the location/call after every shot, then compares the shot target to the call target. My Air Pistol coach had me go through the same drill. I did like Cpl Tomasie mentioning the front sight rise as the capture moment. I think can use that too, as it is a small detail that may be useful to note.

Once you can call your shots you can quickly adjust your sights for the match conditions and save a few points, since CMP/NRA matches do not have a sighting period before competition.

by jwax 1/30/2024, 10:23 am

Sa-tevp wrote:While the person in this video shoots a little funny and leaves a lot of the fifty yard range unused, shot calling is explained. I was hoping to find the section of the CMP Mind Over Mater Bullseye Pistol DVD where Adam Sokolowski explains calling the shot. The exercise of shooting and marking a target next to the shooter helps to learn this technique.

Glad to see the video/headgear training aid still in use! Would love to see it on the commercial market. Anybody know where to buy it?

by fastshooter 1/30/2024, 3:49 pm

I scope the first two or three to make sure that I'm in there.

by BruceV 2/28/2024, 11:54 am

I have always scoped all my shots. Recently I thought seeing a bad shot was putting more pressure on me so I tried for a week no spotting scope. It didn't help me at all, in fact as most have stated we are really using the scope to confirm if we called the shot correctly. When I shoot a bad shot I have found checking it actually helps me, I seemed to regroup and make sure I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing.

Almost 100% of the time when I have a bad shoot in slow fire, I should have put the gun down, what is really crazy I know it and don't do it.

by JRV 3/19/2024, 5:48 pm

Scope, scope, scope. It’s only there to provide information. The mental game is just you playing tricks on yourself.

I started scoping consistently after being forced to compete on paper air pistol targets. There are no scopes allowed in AP, so if you’re not shooting electronic (and keeping shots on paper in the center black), you’re shooting pretty blind one bull at a time.

I’m consistently shooting low-to-mid-90s in SF, and scoping just confirms my call. If I call clock face and scoring ring correctly, I make a mental note of how the shot looked and felt, and I attempt to recreate that in my head before I lift again. My wobble is going to be what it is, but a good call meant the trigger and grip and eyes worked perfectly.

If I am a little off call, regardless of the score, I mentally unlearn that shot and focus on the process of the last “good” called shot.

If I’m more than a scoring ring off or if the clock face call is way wrong, that’s usually my cue to check the Marvel’s guide rod. I’d be hamstringing myself shooting without scoping.

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